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#51 2013-11-21 12:06:59

SuperLynx
Member
Registered: 2009-06-28
Posts: 286

Re: Measure length without bend ?

That is another thread, please keep it separate smile

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#52 2013-11-21 12:12:12

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 81,420

Re: Measure length without bend ?

There is no keeping that separate.

Please read post #48. That information is required. is 2 digits after the decimal ( like the only measurement ) all you want?


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.
All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.

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#53 2013-11-21 12:14:35

SuperLynx
Member
Registered: 2009-06-28
Posts: 286

Re: Measure length without bend ?

Yes, 2 digits after the decimal.

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#54 2013-11-21 12:28:43

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 81,420

Re: Measure length without bend ?

Okay, thank you.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.
All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.

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#55 2013-11-21 13:25:44

Agnishom
Real Member
From: The Complex Plane
Registered: 2011-01-29
Posts: 14,211
Website

Re: Measure length without bend ?

Hi bobbym,

How will you calculate that without knowing the nature of the bent?


'And fun? If maths is fun, then getting a tooth extraction is fun. A viral infection is fun. Rabies shots are fun.'
'God exists because Mathematics is consistent, and the devil exists because we cannot prove it'
'Humanity is still kept intact. It remains within.' -Alokananda

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#56 2013-11-21 13:28:38

anonimnystefy
Real Member
From: The Foundation
Registered: 2011-05-23
Posts: 14,809

Re: Measure length without bend ?

Post #34 contains the picture.


“Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.

“Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment

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#57 2013-11-21 13:32:19

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 81,420

Re: Measure length without bend ?

Yes, I will use the picture, it is already half done but there are still theoretical problems that the OP has not considered.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.
All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.

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#58 2013-11-21 13:34:09

Agnishom
Real Member
From: The Complex Plane
Registered: 2011-01-29
Posts: 14,211
Website

Re: Measure length without bend ?

What do you understand by height with a bend and height without a bend?


'And fun? If maths is fun, then getting a tooth extraction is fun. A viral infection is fun. Rabies shots are fun.'
'God exists because Mathematics is consistent, and the devil exists because we cannot prove it'
'Humanity is still kept intact. It remains within.' -Alokananda

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#59 2013-11-21 13:36:20

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 81,420

Re: Measure length without bend ?

Height to the OP is 11.76 cm. The drawing is a little off but manageable.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.
All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.

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#60 2013-11-21 13:46:34

Agnishom
Real Member
From: The Complex Plane
Registered: 2011-01-29
Posts: 14,211
Website

Re: Measure length without bend ?

and how long is your kitchen?


'And fun? If maths is fun, then getting a tooth extraction is fun. A viral infection is fun. Rabies shots are fun.'
'God exists because Mathematics is consistent, and the devil exists because we cannot prove it'
'Humanity is still kept intact. It remains within.' -Alokananda

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#61 2013-11-21 13:47:17

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 81,420

Re: Measure length without bend ?

Even I can not answer that question and I see it every day.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.
All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.

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#62 2013-11-21 13:52:03

Agnishom
Real Member
From: The Complex Plane
Registered: 2011-01-29
Posts: 14,211
Website

Re: Measure length without bend ?

you should fire up Mathematica.


'And fun? If maths is fun, then getting a tooth extraction is fun. A viral infection is fun. Rabies shots are fun.'
'God exists because Mathematics is consistent, and the devil exists because we cannot prove it'
'Humanity is still kept intact. It remains within.' -Alokananda

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#63 2013-11-21 13:52:59

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 81,420

Re: Measure length without bend ?

That is a good idea but I would not torture Mathematica with that problem. It is ill posed.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.
All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.

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#64 2013-11-21 14:08:39

Agnishom
Real Member
From: The Complex Plane
Registered: 2011-01-29
Posts: 14,211
Website

Re: Measure length without bend ?

LucidLynx' problem is not well posed either


'And fun? If maths is fun, then getting a tooth extraction is fun. A viral infection is fun. Rabies shots are fun.'
'God exists because Mathematics is consistent, and the devil exists because we cannot prove it'
'Humanity is still kept intact. It remains within.' -Alokananda

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#65 2013-11-21 14:11:28

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 81,420

Re: Measure length without bend ?

At present I would say that it is not.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.
All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.

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#66 2013-11-21 14:58:32

SuperLynx
Member
Registered: 2009-06-28
Posts: 286

Re: Measure length without bend ?

I'd like to know how you solve this?

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#67 2013-11-21 15:00:44

Agnishom
Real Member
From: The Complex Plane
Registered: 2011-01-29
Posts: 14,211
Website

Re: Measure length without bend ?

I'd like to know why you want this problem to be solved


'And fun? If maths is fun, then getting a tooth extraction is fun. A viral infection is fun. Rabies shots are fun.'
'God exists because Mathematics is consistent, and the devil exists because we cannot prove it'
'Humanity is still kept intact. It remains within.' -Alokananda

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#68 2013-11-21 15:03:40

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 81,420

Re: Measure length without bend ?

I'd like to know how you solve this?

I have not solved it yet so there is nothing to tell.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.
All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.

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#69 2013-11-21 20:41:40

bob bundy
Moderator
Registered: 2010-06-20
Posts: 6,092

Re: Measure length without bend ?

hi bobbym,

While you're at it, please would you tell me how big my kitchen is. We're having new cupboards fitted and I need to know how many tiles we'll need.  smile

Bob


You cannot teach a man anything;  you can only help him find it within himself..........Galileo Galilei

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#70 2013-11-21 21:15:30

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 81,420

Re: Measure length without bend ?

Hi Bob;

Probably bigger than mine.

Hi SuperLynx;

As predicted problems popped up. I am getting 30.8 cm for the outside edge. The edge is marked in green with blue points. This is probably accurate to ± .1 ?!

The problem is the inside edge is obviously shorter. Can we really now talk about what the length of pipe would be if straightened out? I do not thinks so since the pipe would definitely crack when trying to straighten it.

If we talk about a hypothetical pipe we must decide which edge will be the length measured. I chose the longer edge because we get more pipe for our money.

View Image: first one.gif

In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.
All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.

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#71 2013-11-22 01:27:57

anonimnystefy
Real Member
From: The Foundation
Registered: 2011-05-23
Posts: 14,809

Re: Measure length without bend ?

I think there are physics equations that describe the state of objects under the deformation of bending. I'll look 'em up.


“Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.

“Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment

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#72 2013-11-22 01:32:19

anonimnystefy
Real Member
From: The Foundation
Registered: 2011-05-23
Posts: 14,809

Re: Measure length without bend ?

Here's the Wiki page on Bending.


“Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.

“Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment

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#73 2013-11-22 04:04:42

phrontister
Real Member
From: The Land of Tomorrow
Registered: 2009-07-12
Posts: 3,811

Re: Measure length without bend ?

Hi,

Did some web research and found this (amongst other stuff about it):
1. Pipe generally distorts somewhat during the bending process (thus probably affecting the length of pipe needed), depending on factors such as:
    (a) the pipe's wall thickness and tensile strength
    (b) the bending tool and bending process
2. Less pipe length is required for a shallow bend than for a sharper bend (see image), so we'll need to know the bend dimensions, including the 'Centreline Radius' (CLR).

It seems to me that there are too many unknowns and variables for a precise calculation to be done on this problem.

Anyway, the solution can be found with reasonable accuracy using liquid, but before I divulge anything about it I'd like to pose this as a puzzle for someone to find the method.

View Image: pipe bend radii.png

Last edited by phrontister (2013-11-26 09:25:17)


"The good news about computers is that they do what you tell them to do. The bad news is that they do what you tell them to do." - Ted Nelson

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#74 2013-11-22 04:35:41

SuperLynx
Member
Registered: 2009-06-28
Posts: 286

Re: Measure length without bend ?

What information would you need to make it easier to calculate, what the actual length of the pipe was before it was bent ?

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#75 2013-11-22 05:10:34

Agnishom
Real Member
From: The Complex Plane
Registered: 2011-01-29
Posts: 14,211
Website

Re: Measure length without bend ?

Bobbym, Bob Bundy: My math teacher at school seems to be online now, maybe I should ask her about this question?

Hello Lucid Lynx;

We are posting paragraphs after paragraphs and all you have for us is an one line response? sad

0. Try to read every post before you post and answer whatever they are trying to say
1. Why do you want this to be calculated?
2. Can you post a real picture of it?
3. Explain what you mean by 'length of the pipe before it was bent'.
4. Explain what do you mean by measurement from 'top to bottom'
5. Explain what kind of a bent it is.
6. If the problem is from a textbook, give us the exact words of the problem and the diagram if any.
7. If possible make a video of what measurements you exactly want. If not, try to use a program like Geogebra or Sketchpad to draw legitimate diagrams of it.
8. Please confirm that this is a real problem and not a riddle or a puzzler

Last edited by Agnishom (2013-11-22 05:38:31)


'And fun? If maths is fun, then getting a tooth extraction is fun. A viral infection is fun. Rabies shots are fun.'
'God exists because Mathematics is consistent, and the devil exists because we cannot prove it'
'Humanity is still kept intact. It remains within.' -Alokananda

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