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#26 2014-09-22 01:43:28

ElainaVW
Member
Registered: 2013-04-29
Posts: 580

Re: Bitter snails

Check the coefficient of x^15 and multiply by 15![/hide]

Last edited by ElainaVW (2014-09-22 01:44:40)

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#27 2014-09-22 01:50:10

anonimnystefy
Real Member
From: Harlan's World
Registered: 2011-05-23
Posts: 16,037

Re: Bitter snails

Hi


“Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.
“Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment
The knowledge of some things as a function of age is a delta function.

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#28 2014-09-22 01:53:08

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: Bitter snails

Hi;

If you are looking for a closed form you might start with the gf and for that post #26 looks about right.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

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#29 2014-09-22 01:55:00

anonimnystefy
Real Member
From: Harlan's World
Registered: 2011-05-23
Posts: 16,037

Re: Bitter snails

Hm, I had that GF at one point, but was not sure if it would work.

What is a gAr type answer?


“Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.
“Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment
The knowledge of some things as a function of age is a delta function.

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#30 2014-09-22 01:59:56

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: Bitter snails

See post #22 method 1.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

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#31 2014-09-22 02:01:55

anonimnystefy
Real Member
From: Harlan's World
Registered: 2011-05-23
Posts: 16,037

Re: Bitter snails

So, an answer in form of a recurrence?


“Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.
“Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment
The knowledge of some things as a function of age is a delta function.

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#32 2014-09-22 02:03:37

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: Bitter snails

Not necessarily, just one I do not understand.

Hm, I had that GF at one point, but was not sure if it would work.

Please correct that statement.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

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#33 2014-09-22 02:09:26

anonimnystefy
Real Member
From: Harlan's World
Registered: 2011-05-23
Posts: 16,037

Re: Bitter snails

Correct it? Why?

Why do you not understand the recurrence?


“Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.
“Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment
The knowledge of some things as a function of age is a delta function.

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#34 2014-09-22 02:13:54

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: Bitter snails

Correct it? Why?

Because you could have easily expanded it and checked, that is the beauty of EM. You have verification that you are right...

Why do you not understand the recurrence?

In the battle for Brooklyn I was severely wounded when a mortar shell grazed my head. I lost 4 ounces of high grade brain ooze. I guess it was the portion that controlled double indexed recurrences.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

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#35 2014-09-22 02:22:00

anonimnystefy
Real Member
From: Harlan's World
Registered: 2011-05-23
Posts: 16,037

Re: Bitter snails

I had nothing to check it against. I did not have another solution.

The recurrence is not hard at all.

You look at what happens when you bring in another snail. You can either put it in a group with other snails or put it in a group of its own.


“Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.
“Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment
The knowledge of some things as a function of age is a delta function.

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#36 2014-09-22 02:25:21

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: Bitter snails

I had nothing to check it against. I did not have another solution.

And after you had two solutions?

You look at what happens when you bring in another snail. You can either put it in a group with other snails or put it in a group of its own.

That kind of reasoning went out in the 4 ounces of brain ooze. Did you run the recurrence, that I can understand.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

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#37 2014-09-22 02:29:09

anonimnystefy
Real Member
From: Harlan's World
Registered: 2011-05-23
Posts: 16,037

Re: Bitter snails

After I had the two solutions I did not go back to check it.

Yes, I did run it.


“Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.
“Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment
The knowledge of some things as a function of age is a delta function.

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#38 2014-09-22 02:29:50

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: Bitter snails

How? I never get them to work in M.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

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#39 2014-09-22 02:31:42

anonimnystefy
Real Member
From: Harlan's World
Registered: 2011-05-23
Posts: 16,037

Re: Bitter snails

Hi

a[1, 1] = 1;
a[1, k_] := 0;
a[n_, 1] := 1;
a[n_, k_] := k (a[n - 1, k - 1] + a[n - 1, k]);
a[15, 4]

“Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.
“Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment
The knowledge of some things as a function of age is a delta function.

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#40 2014-09-22 02:34:33

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: Bitter snails

Can you use the built in command RecurrenceTable?


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

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#41 2014-09-22 02:36:17

anonimnystefy
Real Member
From: Harlan's World
Registered: 2011-05-23
Posts: 16,037

Re: Bitter snails

Won't it just take longer?


“Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.
“Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment
The knowledge of some things as a function of age is a delta function.

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#42 2014-09-22 02:37:16

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: Bitter snails

Longer to run? I doubt it, built in commands are usually faster.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

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#43 2014-09-22 03:04:53

anonimnystefy
Real Member
From: Harlan's World
Registered: 2011-05-23
Posts: 16,037

Re: Bitter snails

Either way, I do not see a reason to use that command here.


“Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.
“Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment
The knowledge of some things as a function of age is a delta function.

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#44 2014-09-22 03:11:57

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: Bitter snails

The question I am asking is do you know how to get the built in one working for this example?


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

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#45 2014-09-22 03:12:26

Agnishom
Real Member
From: Riemann Sphere
Registered: 2011-01-29
Posts: 24,806
Website

Re: Bitter snails

No, it is redundant.


'And fun? If maths is fun, then getting a tooth extraction is fun. A viral infection is fun. Rabies shots are fun.'
'God exists because Mathematics is consistent, and the devil exists because we cannot prove it'
I'm not crazy, my mother had me tested.

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#46 2014-09-22 03:14:58

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: Bitter snails

Not necessarilly, it uses memoization so for very large arguments it will be much faster.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

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#47 2014-09-22 03:44:04

Agnishom
Real Member
From: Riemann Sphere
Registered: 2011-01-29
Posts: 24,806
Website

Re: Bitter snails

How do I get the recurrence formula for this problem?


'And fun? If maths is fun, then getting a tooth extraction is fun. A viral infection is fun. Rabies shots are fun.'
'God exists because Mathematics is consistent, and the devil exists because we cannot prove it'
I'm not crazy, my mother had me tested.

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#48 2014-09-22 03:51:54

anonimnystefy
Real Member
From: Harlan's World
Registered: 2011-05-23
Posts: 16,037

Re: Bitter snails

anonimnystefy wrote:

You look at what happens when you bring in another snail. You can either put it in a group with other snails or put it in a group of its own.


“Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.
“Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment
The knowledge of some things as a function of age is a delta function.

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#49 2014-09-22 13:21:21

Agnishom
Real Member
From: Riemann Sphere
Registered: 2011-01-29
Posts: 24,806
Website

Re: Bitter snails

What are n,k?


'And fun? If maths is fun, then getting a tooth extraction is fun. A viral infection is fun. Rabies shots are fun.'
'God exists because Mathematics is consistent, and the devil exists because we cannot prove it'
I'm not crazy, my mother had me tested.

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#50 2014-09-23 00:45:34

anonimnystefy
Real Member
From: Harlan's World
Registered: 2011-05-23
Posts: 16,037

Re: Bitter snails

n is the number of snails, k the number of people.


“Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.
“Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment
The knowledge of some things as a function of age is a delta function.

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