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**foxluv****Member**- Registered: 2007-04-22
- Posts: 3

My 15 year old granddaughter hates math and cannot even do the basics like add -17+17=0. Her answer was -34. I am pushing her since she always fails her math classes and she gets very angry! She is taking Algebra again and I would like a problem in "order of operation", can someone help?

The problem should include all phases and be very long but simple. Thanks

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**MathsIsFun****Administrator**- Registered: 2005-01-21
- Posts: 7,664

Anger is probably due to frustration (she may have "missed" some basic concepts, and now it is all just confusing to her). Just my guess.

There are a few examples on this page: Order of Operations - PEMDAS

Otherwise ... would someone like to start a topic under "Exercises" and supply a few?

"The physicists defer only to mathematicians, and the mathematicians defer only to God ..." - Leon M. Lederman

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**John E. Franklin****Member**- Registered: 2005-08-29
- Posts: 3,588

I'll make up another one for you.

Let's see...

- ( 1 + 2) + (3 + 4) - ( 5 + 6 ) + ( 7 + 8) - (2 x 5) + (3 x 3)

First do the parenthesis and then the minus sign turns those things minus.

restated...

- ( 1 + 2) + (3 + 4) - ( 5 + 6 ) + ( 7 + 8) - (2 x 5) + (3 x 3)

- 3 + 7 - 11 + 15 - 10 + 9

Now plus and minus can be done in any order, but safe to go left to right.

-3 + 7 is 4, and 4 - 11 is -7, and -7 + 15 is 8, and 8 - 10 is -2, and -2 + 9 is 7.

So answer is 7.

Sorry I didn't use exponents or distribution.

Now here is another one.

distribution.

6 ( 5 + 2)

There are 2 ways to do this one.

The 1st way you learn is to follow

parenthesis.

6 ( 5 + 2)

6 ( 7)

6 times 7 is 42.

Now later on, you could learn to

distribute the 6 over the added terms.

(6 times 5) + (6 times 2)

Same answer 30 + 12 = 42.

But this comes a little later.

Also the times sign "x", gets left out once you

get going in algebra since x can represent a number.

**igloo** **myrtilles** **fourmis**

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**Identity****Member**- Registered: 2007-04-18
- Posts: 934

Here's a never-ending well of exercises

http://www.waybuilder.net/sweethaven/Ma … c01_EE.asp

Maths may be fustrating at times, but, oh geeze, it becomes so much fun when you understand it. It really does, and it's so important too - the fundamental language of nature and the universe.

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**treehugger96****Member**- Registered: 2007-12-24
- Posts: 10

I know it's frusting but try teaching her from the start. Dont push her. remember BODMAS

brackets

of

addition

multiplication

addition

subbtration

if all else fails

go to the local bookstore and see if you can find any books on BODAMAS

sorry if this doesn't help

regards

treehugger96

........"To my mind having care and concern for others is the highest of human qualities"

.........Fred Hollows

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**Daniel123****Member**- Registered: 2007-05-23
- Posts: 663

Doesn't the 'o' in Bodmas stand for 'other', not of?

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**mathsyperson****Moderator**- Registered: 2005-06-22
- Posts: 4,900

I think the O is for Order, which is a fancy way of saying powers.

Why did the vector cross the road?

It wanted to be normal.

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**treehugger96****Member**- Registered: 2007-12-24
- Posts: 10

mathsyperson is correct

the "o" in BODMAS can also stand for order

........"To my mind having care and concern for others is the highest of human qualities"

.........Fred Hollows

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**Devantè****Real Member**- Registered: 2006-07-14
- Posts: 6,400

BOD**A**MAS? What on Earth is that supposed to mean?

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**Khushboo****Member**- Registered: 2007-10-16
- Posts: 47

Understanding math can be frustrating at times, especially if the person has not understood the topic conceptually. But it is never to late and one should never give up.

First thing first, you should try and understand whether she understands the concept of addition and subtraction correctly. What i can gather from the problem stated above, the kid has totally overlooked the symbol subtraction and has simply added the numbers. If she is not well versed with the symbols, she obviously will find the order of operations difficult to follow. So if she can be given some word problems to begin with wherein she will have to represent the question in form of numbers and corresponding symbols, she will be able to get hang of the symbols and their inherent meaning. This will facilitate her in learning the order of operations.

Just an idea ...

Regards

Khushboo

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**fruitloop****Member**- Registered: 2007-09-29
- Posts: 15

just need basic help.... prolley goes over her head and makes her mad when ppl explain things that are over her level

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**orpwhite****Guest**

Please remember that PEMDAS is technically misleading to the troubled algebra student without the 'left to right' suggestion.

Please keep in mind that this is not a trolling comment but rather a cautionary warning of inappropriate teaching.

Consider:

37 - 7 + 3

We understand that a calculator should give us 33.

However, using 'simple' PEMDAS, we could arrive at this conclusion:

Addition

37 - 7 + 3

37 - 10

Subtraction

27

The problem occurs in the addition section. We are not adding 7 and 3 but rather -7 and 3 which would be -4. Such a result would lead us to:

37 - 4

which is 33.

When suggesting PEMDAS to a student who does not understand adding positive and negative integers, we open the door for this type of mistake. Thus, to rectify the problem, we say "Use PEMDAS from left to right" like a typewriter.

The directional suggestion is not necessary for a student who understands integer addition. Does it seem like less students today understand integer addition?

**coconut****Member**- Registered: 2008-03-02
- Posts: 9

i feel soooo bad for your grand daughter she should study one thing at a time with lots of help

shimmy shimmy coconut shimmy shimmy nut

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**Monox D. I-Fly****Member**- Registered: 2015-12-02
- Posts: 886

foxluv wrote:

My 15 year old granddaughter hates math and cannot even do the basics like add -17+17=0. Her answer was -34. I am pushing her since she always fails her math classes and she gets very angry! She is taking Algebra again and I would like a problem in "order of operation", can someone help?

The problem should include all phases and be very long but simple. Thanks

Suppose she has a $17 loan and now she gets $17. How much money or loan she has? Indonesian teachers usually teach about negative numbers like this.

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