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#26 2012-11-21 05:09:42

anonimnystefy
Real Member
From: The Foundation
Registered: 2011-05-23
Posts: 15,307

Re: Scientists, our benefactors?

Calligar wrote:

How is that less torture to the people?  I mean, with the sun, it would be more or less quick depending on how fast we were going into it, but a black hole, I wouldn't even know where to begin with that.  Just to start you'd be stretched further and further the closer you get to the black hole (and you wouldn't even be in the black hole yet), let alone all of other stuff that would is theorized to happen to you.  I don't know, I don't quite agree a black hole would be less torturous...

I think you got it wrong. I meant that the Sun would be less torturous to the people...


“Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.

“Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment

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#27 2012-11-21 05:20:45

Calligar
Member
Registered: 2011-09-24
Posts: 234

Re: Scientists, our benefactors?

Oh, sorry, I must have misread.


Life isn’t a simple Math: there are always other variables.  -[unknown]

But Nature flies from the infinite, for the infinite is unending or imperfect, and Nature ever seeks an end.  -Aristotle

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#28 2012-11-21 10:30:09

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 84,400

Re: Scientists, our benefactors?

Hi;

Yes, that is dated in the past so it obviously never came about. It appears that we are lucky not every idea scientists get works.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.
All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.

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#29 2012-11-22 10:05:09

mathgogocart
Member
Registered: 2012-04-29
Posts: 1,426

Re: Scientists, our benefactors?

very disturbing...They are crazy


Hey.

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#30 2012-11-23 12:42:54

Calligar
Member
Registered: 2011-09-24
Posts: 234

Re: Scientists, our benefactors?

Hmm, I actually decided to look up this article and found some things about both the article and "The Onion" itself.  The Onion doesn't even apparently have completely serious articles in the first place.  They seem to turn real things into somewhat of a joke.  This article is based off what these scientists really believe, and is based off what they actually quoted, but the onlion more turns it into some kind of joke (though I don't quite get the joke about that...).  I also showed this article to...3 other people I know, all of which had fairly different responses.

1 person I showed it to thought they unfortunately are right, about how our world is too quickly going into overpopulation, and if we don't do something soon, it will lead to a more drastic situation.  However, they thought the solutions were quite stupid, and was saying how there are much better solutions for this then that.

Another person said they'd be completely for this because if we don't do something and soon, it will be even worse.  And that they actually admire them for coming out and speaking the truth, even knowing that many people might hate or dislike them for it.

The other person I talked to thinks little of this article.  Not only disagreeing, but finding this article quite crazy.  They also apparently already knew about the onion, as they were readers of it, and took it more as a joke.  But as I already said, he found what they were saying to be crazy, and disagreed that we need to do something that extreme in the first place.

Now, though the onion might make a joke of this article (though I honestly don't understand how as I'm pretty bad at getting jokes myself...), but these are based on what real scientists believe through their studies.  Just thought it would be interesting to bring up to everyone.

In my opinion, it is more disturbing if their information is more right, and we might have to find a solution and very soon for it.  Even if it isn't as dire as they make it seem, I would be personally worried myself if this remains an issue for longer then it needs to be.

(To note: I have not researched this heavily, only a little bit and going off other people's word a bit.  I did not really have the time to look into it very deeply, nor do I care enough to look into it that deeply.  I just thought this would be interesting information to bring up to everyone when I found out about it.)


Life isn’t a simple Math: there are always other variables.  -[unknown]

But Nature flies from the infinite, for the infinite is unending or imperfect, and Nature ever seeks an end.  -Aristotle

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#31 2012-11-23 17:09:35

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 84,400

Re: Scientists, our benefactors?

Hi;

Yes, I know about the onion and its supposed zaniness. But the fact that you were able to find people as did I who thought it was actually a good idea ( except they thought the methods of execution were foolish ) was what I was trying to make obvious.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.
All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.

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#32 2012-11-23 19:38:13

Calligar
Member
Registered: 2011-09-24
Posts: 234

Re: Scientists, our benefactors?

Hmm, you mind explaining how this is a joke though, because I don't really get it?


Life isn’t a simple Math: there are always other variables.  -[unknown]

But Nature flies from the infinite, for the infinite is unending or imperfect, and Nature ever seeks an end.  -Aristotle

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#33 2012-11-23 19:47:13

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 84,400

Re: Scientists, our benefactors?

It is not a joke, my point is that half the people think it funny and the other half are seriously considering it. The extermination of two billion people seems not to matter.

Luckily, as I pointed out the math types thought it barbaric...


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.
All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.

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#34 2012-11-23 20:01:24

Calligar
Member
Registered: 2011-09-24
Posts: 234

Re: Scientists, our benefactors?

Well I hate to say you might be wrong then.  You see, the 3 people I told you about are my friend, my brother, and my father.  All 3 are very good at math, I might be arguably the worst compared to them, especially my bro and father.  My friend is closer to my level, but he's in college.  In that sense, they are all math types, and it was my friend who is completely for this.  My brother is the one who said we need a different solution, and my dad is the one who didn't really care that much, but did mention how he didn't agree with it.  I tried also showing my sister, but she just did not even look at it, and therefore could not get her view.

Unless you mean something else by math type?

Last edited by Calligar (2012-11-23 20:02:07)


Life isn’t a simple Math: there are always other variables.  -[unknown]

But Nature flies from the infinite, for the infinite is unending or imperfect, and Nature ever seeks an end.  -Aristotle

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#35 2012-11-23 20:09:33

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 84,400

Re: Scientists, our benefactors?

I would never be talking about the people you mentioned in your post. They are excluded from this conversation if they are not generic but people you know and care for.

I conveyed the wrong idea, we can discuss people in general, I meant no insult to your family. I will be more careful with my phraseology in the future.

I was particularly talking about the people here on the forum.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.
All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.

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#36 2012-11-23 20:18:23

Calligar
Member
Registered: 2011-09-24
Posts: 234

Re: Scientists, our benefactors?

Oh, don't worry, you didn't insult me or anyone I care for.  I do fairly more strongly disagree with my friend.  He's into things like that and eugenics and all (no insult intended if you believe in eugenics, just simply saying I disagree with it personally).  We have argued it before, but unfortunately to no avail; he has his opinion, I have mine.  I have a hard time figuring him out sometimes, but his personality is...noticeably different then mine to say the least.


Life isn’t a simple Math: there are always other variables.  -[unknown]

But Nature flies from the infinite, for the infinite is unending or imperfect, and Nature ever seeks an end.  -Aristotle

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#37 2012-11-23 20:29:32

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 84,400

Re: Scientists, our benefactors?

I am opposed to Eugenics. Your friend has the right to feel differently about it.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.
All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.

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#38 2012-11-23 20:31:06

Calligar
Member
Registered: 2011-09-24
Posts: 234

Re: Scientists, our benefactors?

Ah, so your more similar then.  You mind if I ask you why?


Life isn’t a simple Math: there are always other variables.  -[unknown]

But Nature flies from the infinite, for the infinite is unending or imperfect, and Nature ever seeks an end.  -Aristotle

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#39 2012-11-23 20:37:19

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 84,400

Re: Scientists, our benefactors?

I do not like the people who push it very much. If I truly believed they had our best interest at heart I would listen. I believe those who seek to enact such ideas have ulterior motives.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.
All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.

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#40 2012-11-23 20:53:56

Calligar
Member
Registered: 2011-09-24
Posts: 234

Re: Scientists, our benefactors?

Hmm, so your not actually against the idea itself, but rather the people who try to implement it?


Life isn’t a simple Math: there are always other variables.  -[unknown]

But Nature flies from the infinite, for the infinite is unending or imperfect, and Nature ever seeks an end.  -Aristotle

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#41 2012-11-23 20:56:43

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 84,400

Re: Scientists, our benefactors?

Nothing inert is really good or bad. People's intentions, now that is another story.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.
All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.

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#42 2012-11-23 21:16:19

Calligar
Member
Registered: 2011-09-24
Posts: 234

Re: Scientists, our benefactors?

Hmm, so what do you think about wanting to kill, since they aren't actually doing it (going based off what you said where nothing inert is really good or bad)?

By the way, if the conversation becomes too...uncomfortable to talk about, just let me know and I'll stop.  I often take things more...philosophically, and become more curious about things as a result.  It can often lead people to being uncomfortable which is not my intention.


Life isn’t a simple Math: there are always other variables.  -[unknown]

But Nature flies from the infinite, for the infinite is unending or imperfect, and Nature ever seeks an end.  -Aristotle

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#43 2012-11-23 21:23:28

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 84,400

Re: Scientists, our benefactors?

Them wanting to kill? The people in the article? I have heard and know people who attended symposiums or lectures where those very viewpoints were put forth...


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.
All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.

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#44 2012-11-23 21:38:03

Calligar
Member
Registered: 2011-09-24
Posts: 234

Re: Scientists, our benefactors?

No, I meant what you thought, sorry.  I was only asking based on my first question I guess leading into it being a little more specific, I tend to do that to better understand things.


Life isn’t a simple Math: there are always other variables.  -[unknown]

But Nature flies from the infinite, for the infinite is unending or imperfect, and Nature ever seeks an end.  -Aristotle

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#45 2012-11-23 21:43:01

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 84,400

Re: Scientists, our benefactors?

That is the most difficult question in the world to answer. I have been in life or death situations, I hope I made the right choice.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.
All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.

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#46 2012-11-23 21:54:22

Calligar
Member
Registered: 2011-09-24
Posts: 234

Re: Scientists, our benefactors?

Oh, uh, hmm.  I'm a little bit confused, what is the most difficult question to answer?  Whether wanting to kill people is or isn't a good or bad thing?


Life isn’t a simple Math: there are always other variables.  -[unknown]

But Nature flies from the infinite, for the infinite is unending or imperfect, and Nature ever seeks an end.  -Aristotle

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#47 2012-11-23 21:57:07

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 84,400

Re: Scientists, our benefactors?

Wanting to kill I believe is a bad thing.

Being forced into a situation of having to take a life or lose your own is difficult to judge the correct action.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.
All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.

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#48 2012-11-23 22:12:50

Calligar
Member
Registered: 2011-09-24
Posts: 234

Re: Scientists, our benefactors?

Oh, I see.  Yeah, I am sorry you had to go through that kind of situation.  I hope I am never included in those kinds of situations.  I for one aren't much on violence in the first place.  I have learned martial arts in the past, however, I would never use it on anybody or anything unless I had no other choice.  In the past, back when I used to live with my father, my sister was always terribly frightened of bugs.  I would always try to capture them and take them outside so as not to do any harm to them.  My dad always questioned why I don't just kill it, and I always responded with many reasons as to why, be he never seemed to understand.  My brother seemed to not care as much, and since I was always trying to release them, would always just call me to take care of it.

To get to the point, I honestly don't think I can take another's life, as I would probably take my own instead.  Even in cases of self defense, if I ever happened to kill someone as a result of it, I would most definitely feel great guilt towards it.  The issue is, I have never been in a situation like that before, and can't really say what I'd do for sure, as I could just be fooling myself right now.  After all, when it comes to a matter of life and death, instinct points towards you living, therefore fear might overtake my beliefs in that case...unfortunately.


Life isn’t a simple Math: there are always other variables.  -[unknown]

But Nature flies from the infinite, for the infinite is unending or imperfect, and Nature ever seeks an end.  -Aristotle

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#49 2012-11-23 22:17:06

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 84,400

Re: Scientists, our benefactors?

There was a time I captured bugs and released them outside too. Wouldn't eat meat either.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.
All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.

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#50 2012-11-23 22:17:49

Calligar
Member
Registered: 2011-09-24
Posts: 234

Re: Scientists, our benefactors?

What changed?


Life isn’t a simple Math: there are always other variables.  -[unknown]

But Nature flies from the infinite, for the infinite is unending or imperfect, and Nature ever seeks an end.  -Aristotle

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