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#26 2014-03-18 04:45:00

WISE
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Registered: 2014-03-14
Posts: 21

Re: What is a Reliable Set Regarding % ?

Can you Explain ?

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#27 2014-03-18 05:00:33

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: What is a Reliable Set Regarding % ?

I gave a pretty good one with the stadium and the room.

Your first statement is somewhat different then the later ones. A percentage is a calculation, it is either wrong or right. If you added up correctly then the percentage is correct. There is only so much information possible in one number. If a guy gets 3000 votes out of 10000 and another guy gets 300 votes out of 1000 then the percentages are the same.

We are back to the start. What means reliabilty?


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

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#28 2014-03-18 05:10:12

Agnishom
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From: Riemann Sphere
Registered: 2011-01-29
Posts: 24,974
Website

Re: What is a Reliable Set Regarding % ?

Hello;

The reliability of the statistical results probably depend on what you want to use it for and what the data is about.

Please tell us if you have a specific problem.


'And fun? If maths is fun, then getting a tooth extraction is fun. A viral infection is fun. Rabies shots are fun.'
'God exists because Mathematics is consistent, and the devil exists because we cannot prove it'
I'm not crazy, my mother had me tested.

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#29 2014-03-18 05:18:01

Bob
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Registered: 2010-06-20
Posts: 10,053

Re: What is a Reliable Set Regarding % ?

There are some contexts where the sample size matters.  eg.  If you wanted to know what percentage of the population earns over 1000000 per year, then just asking a few mates wouldn't be as reliable as asking 10000000 people.  (Of course, I use the term 'earns' loosely here smile .

Or if I was conducting a referendum amongst a population to decide whether to declare that region independent of the rest of the country and the result was 52% in favour when the 'turn-out' was only 40% of the electorate, I say that wasn't as reliable as  95% in favour when the turn-out was 81% of the electorate.  Be interesting to see the figures when the people of Scotland vote for or against independence in 6 months time.

Bob


Children are not defined by school ...........The Fonz
You cannot teach a man anything;  you can only help him find it within himself..........Galileo Galilei
Sometimes I deliberately make mistakes, just to test you!  …………….Bob smile

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#30 2014-03-18 05:31:20

WISE
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Registered: 2014-03-14
Posts: 21

Re: What is a Reliable Set Regarding % ?

Reliable is More! as far as most people are concerned! but in the case of % any amount regarding the pool used is the same as another with a pool of 1 ? smile

Nothing that complicated! do you think 3 which = 30% is as reliable as 3000000 which = 30%

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#31 2014-03-18 05:34:14

WISE
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Registered: 2014-03-14
Posts: 21

Re: What is a Reliable Set Regarding % ?

But % shows us that size has nothing to do with what % thinks ? is the True result!

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#32 2014-03-18 07:57:32

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: What is a Reliable Set Regarding % ?

Reliable is More! as far as most people are concerned! but in the case of % any amount regarding the pool used is the same as another with a pool of 1 ?

Now you are talking about a pool. What happened to the election? Still have not defined reliable.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

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#33 2014-03-18 10:35:14

eigenguy
Member
Registered: 2014-03-18
Posts: 78

Re: What is a Reliable Set Regarding % ?

If in the first town, there are exactly 19 eligible voters, all of whom voted, but in the third town, there are 100,000 eligible voters, so only 19% of them voted, then that 30% vote for A in the first town is perfectly true and reliable, while in the third town, the 3000 votes for A is a much *less* reliable indicator of the will of the people.

Percentages by themselves are meaningless. It is the context that gives them meaning. You haven't provided enough context here to know which of your three scenarios is more reliable.

As bobbym and Angishom have said, through, simply as measures of the relative amount of votes received, the percentages are equally reliable in all three cases.


"Having thus refreshed ourselves in the oasis of a proof, we now turn again into the desert of definitions." - Bröcker & Jänich

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#34 2014-03-18 23:30:18

WISE
Banned
Registered: 2014-03-14
Posts: 21

Re: What is a Reliable Set Regarding % ?

Town 1 Vote A = 3   B = 7  C =  9
Town 2 Vote A = 30 B = 70  C = 90
Town 3 Vote A = 3000 B = 7000  C = 9000

Below is a way!

Town 1 Vote A = 3   B = 7  C =  9

A = 15.789 % x 3 = 47.367
B = 36.842 % x 7 = 257.894
C = 47.368 % x 9 = 426.312

Town 2 Vote A = 30 B = 70  C = 90

A = 15.789 % x 30 = 473.67
B = 36.842 % x 70 = 2578.94
C = 47.368 % x 90 = 4263.12

Town 3 Vote A = 3000 B = 7000  C = 9000

A = 15.789 % x 3000 = 47367
B = 36.842 % x 7000 = 257894
C = 47.368 % x 9000 = 426312

Now we have new % Values based on how many people actually voted within each group!

So...

Town 1 A = 47.367
Town 2 A = 473.67
Town 3 A = 47367

Total = 47888.037

Converted to New reliable % Values! which shows that Town 3 A = 98.911 % is the most reliable.

Town 1 A = 0.098 %
Town 2 A = 0.989 %
Town 3 A = 98.911 %

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#35 2014-03-19 03:36:32

bobbym
bumpkin
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 109,606

Re: What is a Reliable Set Regarding % ?

98.911 %

How do you get that for town 3?

Do you have a source to quote for that idea?

You can juggle the figures as you like but you have still have not explained what you mean by reliability.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

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#36 2014-03-19 04:16:52

Agnishom
Real Member
From: Riemann Sphere
Registered: 2011-01-29
Posts: 24,974
Website

Re: What is a Reliable Set Regarding % ?

Huh? Where did that calculation come from?

Why not look at the original data instead of the percentage if you're interested in reliability?


'And fun? If maths is fun, then getting a tooth extraction is fun. A viral infection is fun. Rabies shots are fun.'
'God exists because Mathematics is consistent, and the devil exists because we cannot prove it'
I'm not crazy, my mother had me tested.

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#37 2014-03-19 11:33:17

eigenguy
Member
Registered: 2014-03-18
Posts: 78

Re: What is a Reliable Set Regarding % ?

Ah. This is obviously some strange usage of the word "reliable" that I hadn't previously been aware of.

What I would call these numbers is very, very badly biased. What do you have against the poor folks in town 1 that you think that the value of a vote by an individual in this town as compared to the value of a vote of an individual in town 3 should be in the same ratio as the population of the towns?? It's bad enough that even normally, town 3 has so much more population that essentially it controls the outcomes of all elections, with the other two towns making a difference only when the population in town 3 is close to equally divided. But now you want to devalue the votes in these small towns even more?


"Having thus refreshed ourselves in the oasis of a proof, we now turn again into the desert of definitions." - Bröcker & Jänich

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