Can we reach for the stars?

irspow · 2005-12-09 14:22:54

I am quite new here, however the depth of the worksheets is laughable. I do not mean to be offensive in any way as it seems that many of you have surpassed my level of education. It is just that the level of the worksheets fails to exceed all but the most elimentary level of mathematics.

While the basics of mathematics are necessary and justified here the worksheets page seems truncated to the point where it is useful only to very few. My short stint here has left me with the feeling that most of the problems dealt with in the Help Me! forum are at the calculus or pre-calculus level. Would it not be reasonable, even beneficial, to bridge the gap between what now exists there up until at least that point?

The collective knowledge of all of the people who visit this site must be immense. Why not tap that potential to create a kind of knowledge base that is not found on very many websites if any? Just the moderators could have a significant impact upon the contents of this page. If each moderator were to create a small set of problems with worked out solutions just once a week within his/her given specialties for a year, it would create over 260 lessons for those who visit! What kind of prestige would that bring to this place within two or three years time?

That is not the limit however. Perhaps you could create a depository for worksheets that could be created by all of those who visit here. You never know who might drop by and want to make a contribution. A radio engineer could drop by and leave a page of formulas that would have taken one of us days or even weeks to derive. Everyone has an area that is particularly highly developed within them because of our unique personalities and interests. It is from extracting this specialized knowledge that we can all most benefit.

I know that there is a place to create worksheets, but who is willing to drop a page or two of related rates within such an elimentary environment? It is your job as moderators to encourage and reward such activity. I suspect that many here and who are visiting regularly are in or are heading toward an establishment of higher learning. Why not allow others to place their solved homework problems in the worksheets page?

Perhaps I am rambling but I see a vast waste of potential in this area. Little sites with grand ideas can become Googles. The more knowledge contained here, the more knowledge that it draws. Can you see an exponetial function emerging?

Sincerely,

Tom

MathsIsFun · 2005-12-09 16:17:43

Wow ...

... if I could figure out a way to make it easy to add them ...

... but there may be few/no contributors - it takes time/effort to put together a good problem.

Let's see what everyone thinks.

irspow · 2005-12-09 17:49:51

For what it is worth, I would be willing to do a few myself. After all I am the one that suggested the idea in the first place. Your job would be mostly in finding a way to edit and maybe organize them in some meaningful way. I personally think that the hardest project will be designing an efficient search mechanism for such a large library that will surely ensue.

justlookingforthemoment · 2005-12-09 19:23:56

What an interesting idea. And if everyone were to help just a little... this site would be a database of knowledge.

I was thinking, could this somehow link back to the Wiki? It's just been sitting there with no contributions (I know, I can't talk) for quite a while. I think we need to start a project, whether it be what irspow was talking about, or get the Wiki moving along.

mathsyperson · 2005-12-10 00:35:46

True, but MathsIsFun was saying that he didn't want the wiki to become too full of maths stuff, because Wikipedia already has lots maths pages that we'd just be duplicating.

It's an interesting idea. I'm not sure how successful it would be, considering what's happened to mathwiki, but I'd try to contribute. I'll have loads of free time during the holidays soon.

MathsIsFun · 2005-12-10 00:56:39

Well, yes, Wikipedia has extensive detail - but only in explanations, and they are pretty detailed (often too detailed for beginners), it is, after all, an encyclopedia. So, we would be wasting our time trying to create an in-depth page on say, Fourier Transforms or the like.

But irspow is talking about problems with worked solutions, which are not part of Wikipedia.

The more I think about it the more I like it. Could be great practice for people facing exams. Helpful also to people with real world problems. We could have worked solutions to differentiation, matrices, etc, etc.

And if we used the Wiki (or something like it) we could have multiple members work on the one problem. Or someone proposes a problem which someone else solves.

...

irspow · 2005-12-10 11:30:18

Let me know it there is anything that I can do. I will be happy to submit anything that you (collectively) think could be beneficial. It is great to hear a little excitement in this coversation because I think that it has great potential.

MathsIsFun · 2005-12-10 22:28:15

OK, I have started research into this.

No conclusions yet, but I might do an experiment with another Wiki called Dokuwiki, it is apparently a lot faster (see http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/DokuWiki … benchmarks), and may integrate better with the forum.

We could maybe use it to construct worksheets. Cooperatively!

Then some kind of search/index so that people could look for Algebra or Trig, etc.

It seems such a good idea I will try to devote some time every day to getting it up and running. As well as helping others we may also learn lots from each other.

Meanwhile ... more volunteers ???

MathsIsFun · 2005-12-12 08:53:05

Progress: Dokuwiki seems easier to use than Mediawiki. I made a simple "Name the Triangle" worksheet in a few minutes (using images I uploaded), and it was fun and easy.

I am grappling with a few issues:

* Have it use the same logins we use here
* Having an "In-Progress" and "Completed" section (so visitors don't rely on wrong stuff!)
* Being able to "lock down" the completed worksheets (so someone doesn't come along and randomly change them)
* Making it work with the existing worksheet section

If I could somehow get it integrated into the existing worksheets section they would gets lots of viewings, and maybe we could encourage the teachers that use them to contribute some of their own.

It would also be nice to put your username at the bottom of each one ("Designed by ~").

I will keep you posted.

Jai Ganesh · 2005-12-12 20:43:03

Good suggestion by irspow.

MathsIsFun wrote:

More volunteers!

.
Me! But give me enough time.

MathsIsFun · 2005-12-12 21:56:52

Thanks ganesh!

My latest update: My head is spinning - I have been looking at all sorts of Wikis: MediaWiki, DokuWiki, TikiWiki, miniWiki, WikkaWiki ... The one with the best editor is DokuWiki, and so I am persisting with it.

So my strategy (at this point, but things are still fuzzy) is to extend the "Create A Worksheet" function, so that when you press the button you are asked to enter a title and category, and then you get the DokuWiki editor.

I think each worksheet should also be reviewed (given a rating) so that visitors can assess it's quality.

Here is a (simple) example to show you what the editor and result looks like:

MathsIsFun · 2005-12-15 18:34:30

Progress: haven't started any serious coding yet, but ideas are taking shape.

The present worksheets give a set of random problems, and the user chooses what type of problem, range of numbers etc (for example add decimals between 0.10 and 0.99). Let's call these "Automatic"

Our new worksheets will be hand-crafted using an editor, with optional graphics. Let's call these "Manual"

So when someone visits they can access both (somehow) and I will distinguish them with small graphic (how would you show the difference?)

Likewise, when you go to create a new worksheet you will be asked "Manual" or "Automatic"

Every worksheet has a Name and a Subject. Current Subjects include Decimals, Fractions, Time.

New Subjects would be what:

Geometry - Plane
Geometry - Solid
Calculus - Differentiation
Calculus - Integration

What subjects would you want to see ... ?

Jai Ganesh · 2005-12-15 22:46:34

Analytical Geometry , Trignometry (if these aren't covered in Plane and Solid Geometry) and Complex Numbers too.

MathsIsFun · 2005-12-19 18:22:43

Thanks, ganesh (again!).

Progress: getting there! I have been using up all my spare time on this ... it is just a little harder than I first thought.

Anyway, I can now edit a worksheet, insert headings, do bold italic, etc, and then save it and display it how the user should see it.

I am currently grappling with uploading images, and once I have that accomplished, you guys can start creating worksheets

So ... you can start planning what worksheets you will add ... basically any question/answer combination that you think would benefit people.

I am just a little excited, because:

* Students can use them to learn.
* Teachers can use them to set tasks for their students.
* We can use them to answer questions on the forum.
* They can be used for "enrichment" tasks.
* They can be just plain fun puzzles to solve.

Yoiks!

John E. Franklin · 2005-12-20 13:18:27

I've never tried to make a worksheet, maybe I should try that to see how it currently works...
What if I make a worksheet that has mistakes in it or is not using techniques in the right way,
but still ends up working, so it might be not good teaching. Who will decide what is ypparc
and what is good? Maybe MSFun will have to approve them? And I was laughing that a
simple word like the one I spelt backwards was filtered by the filter. How strange. Maybe
that word is offensive in Great Britain, but not here 72° west (1/5th of 360°) in New England.
...
Okay I just made a worksheet, but you can delete it because it is all wrong.
I tried to make a Sudoku puzzle but the patterns worksheet was not flexible enough
to draw the boxes of a 4x4 grid or matrix. Search on Sudoku for title and delete please.

Last edited by John E. Franklin (2005-12-20 13:44:28)

mathsyperson · 2005-12-20 13:47:08

It's not really offensive in Great Britain, it's just that as this site gets young visitors (apparently), MathsIsFun filters pretty much anything that might be considered even mildly offensive. Other filtered words include ssa and oop.

And yes, the worksheets would almost certainly need to be verified by someone before they are let through. As this system would allow anyone to make a worksheet, people with nothing better to do with their lives than to make other people's lives a bit more miserable could easily post worksheets that contained naughty words such as ssa and oop, or other things that were equally bad.

MathsIsFun · 2005-12-20 17:41:44

Yes, it is a scary proposition, but worthwhile if we can get it right. Also scary is that hackers may find ways to inject code, and collapse the whole website. So I have spent lots of time putting in limits. (If people could be trusted there is so much more that could be accomplished!)

Anyway, I am getting close to a "beta" version of the "Manual Worksheets" (you were using the "Automatic Worksheets" John, which don't have the flexibility you wanted).

When the "beta" (more like a "gamma") is ready (tomorrow, maybe) you could all have a go entering just one worksheet so that you can give me feedback. I will let you know.

Q: Who could "verify" a worksheet? Moderators?

mathsyperson · 2005-12-20 22:02:35

Where did John go to make a spreadsheet? Am I missing something really obvious? The only link I can find in this topic is the one that leads to the description of DocuWiki.

MathsIsFun · 2005-12-21 00:28:17

Terminology I think.

Spreadsheets is what Excel does, but Excel calls them worksheets.

Worksheets are sets of problems given to students like here: Maths Worksheets. John would have clicked on "Create your own Worksheet".

At this stage you can only create variations of my existing "automatic" worksheets, so he wasn't able to get what he wanted.

mathsyperson · 2005-12-21 00:42:28

Wah. I meant worksheet, but I said spreadsheet without thinking. That was silly. Anyway, you gave the link to the worksheets page, so I found it anyway. Thanks.

MathsIsFun · 2005-12-21 18:43:19

OK ... after ten days I decided I better make *something* available or I would go mental.

So you can now Beta test the Manual Worksheets.

Click Create a Worksheet, make sure you are logged in (it should say so) and then click on "Create a New Worksheet".

Enter name, etc, and make sure you have selected the Manual option, then press "Update"

Now you can type into the "Q" and "A" areas, format them, upload images and so on (I hope).

Just for testing, OK? Not for serious yet.

John E. Franklin · 2005-12-22 14:44:37

I made one. You can find it by searching on "Braille".
The carriage returns didn't get saved though, so you
can't read the Braille message.

MathsIsFun · 2005-12-22 17:18:53

Thanks ... first one!

I managed to put a carriage return in. I went to the end of the first sentence and pressed enter.

Interesting example to use Braille. I am starting to think what an amzing teaching aid this whole thing is.

MathsIsFun · 2005-12-23 09:57:44

Feed me!

I need people to try it out and tell me stuff, so I know what to do next ...

[ Create a Worksheet, then "Create a New Worksheet", then "Manually" ...]

MathsIsFun · 2005-12-26 18:59:07

I have improved the Worksheet Search, it displays results more like the search engines do, and shows stars as well!

You will notice that the Designer of the worksheet gets a mention, and users are encouraged to rate worksheets.

I will continue to improve the software, if you guys can contribute the content ...

Math Is Fun Forum

#1 2005-12-09 14:22:54

Can we reach for the stars?

#2 2005-12-09 16:17:43

Re: Can we reach for the stars?

#3 2005-12-09 17:49:51

Re: Can we reach for the stars?

#4 2005-12-09 19:23:56

Re: Can we reach for the stars?

#5 2005-12-10 00:35:46

Re: Can we reach for the stars?

#6 2005-12-10 00:56:39

Re: Can we reach for the stars?

#7 2005-12-10 11:30:18

Re: Can we reach for the stars?

#8 2005-12-10 22:28:15

Re: Can we reach for the stars?

#9 2005-12-12 08:53:05

Re: Can we reach for the stars?

#10 2005-12-12 20:43:03

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#11 2005-12-12 21:56:52

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#12 2005-12-15 18:34:30

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#13 2005-12-15 22:46:34

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#14 2005-12-19 18:22:43

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#15 2005-12-20 13:18:27

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#16 2005-12-20 13:47:08

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#17 2005-12-20 17:41:44

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#18 2005-12-20 22:02:35

Re: Can we reach for the stars?

#19 2005-12-21 00:28:17

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#20 2005-12-21 00:42:28

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#21 2005-12-21 18:43:19

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#22 2005-12-22 14:44:37

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#23 2005-12-22 17:18:53

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#24 2005-12-23 09:57:44

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#25 2005-12-26 18:59:07

Re: Can we reach for the stars?

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