God is true

mason777 · 2007-11-22 16:08:34

Identity wrote:

I think it is a bit unfair to compare religion to science. After all, religion, by its very definition, requires belief. And belief, by its very definition, is not based on logic. By transitivity, religion is not logical. And it's not meant to be... why these people believe in it, I may never know... all I know is there is some reason. I hope that's cleared up.

Yes but science is not true because... We have seen people. They do look like apes and act like them. But religio has proof. The bible is true. You should take a look at it and see what you find. I know it is very hard to believe but if you work you can learn.

mason777 · 2007-11-22 16:10:31

Ricky wrote:

but it is all 100% true i promise...
I didn't believe you till you said this last part.

I know it is hard to belive as i said earlier but i promise on my own life this is true. And the bible is true. prove it i need you to go to church and as someone.

NullRoot · 2007-11-22 22:05:21

Ricky wrote:

We had to deal with that and invent imaginary numbers.
This is how they came about, perhaps, but today it is not true. Complex numbers are just R^2 defined with addition and multiplication in a special way. They have existed ever since we accepted ZFC set theory as the basis of mathematics. We discovered this, however, when we looked for solutions to certain polynomial equations.

That was my point. For people using only Real Numbers, x²=-1 was probably pretty illogical, if not useless. So someone comes along and says, "You know what? I need x²=-1 to do my work. We'll have to develop a system for this."
The great thing about Math is that our logic and axioms don't die in light of theoretical situations, they flourish. And so long as Math bears fruit, no one really cares that you can't eat the leaves. At least until we decide we need to, anyway.:/ Then we'll be complaining about how inedible the bark is.

mason777 · 2007-11-23 04:43:40

Ricky wrote:

For sake of clarity, the subject of this thread as defined by mason777 appears to be the Christian god, which is the one I am referring to.
...that seems an unfair dismissal of the subject. There are many forms of prayer besides asking for help. For example, there is prayer as a means of associating with or "spending time" with God, Allah, Buddha or whoever. There is prayer to do homage, prayer to give thanks, prayer of confession/reparation, etc.
I was talking about the part of prayer which I found to be contradictory to logic. Certainly one need not only ask for help when they pray, however it is a nonempty subset of prayers.
But even in the case of help, what you are more or less saying (IF I'm not mistaken) is that people should be able to ignore God, Allah, Buddha etc. and expect him to do favors for you.
It has nothing to do with ignoring God, but rather with being required to ask for his help. He should know that you need and/or want it. Ignoring him and not asking for help are not equivalent things.
So I agree, a Christian expecting prayer to grant you money and riches is foolish.
Just to be extra clear, you've brought this into the conversation. That is, no one else was talking about wealth. So I'm not quite sure who it is you are agreeing with.

That is correct. I am talking about the Christian god. And it is wrong to ask for wealth and fame etc. But the things you should ask, for an example you want to win your soccer game. You don't pray for the other team to win but for your team to try their best. So in other words. you don't pray for others losing or not doing their best. You pray that you do your best. I did the wrong thing in my spelling bee. I was one of the last 3and a girl walks up.I pray for her to spell it wrong and that was not the right thing to do. She actually spelled the word wrong. But i know it was from luck because if I were to ask god to kill some one it would not happen unless he/she did something sinful.

Last edited by mason777 (2007-11-23 04:44:39)

Devantè · 2007-11-23 04:49:34

mason777 wrote:

Yes but science is not true because... We have seen people. They do look like apes and act like them. But religio has proof. The bible is true. You should take a look at it and see what you find. I know it is very hard to believe but if you work you can learn.

Saying science is not true is totally incorrect.

What you have said does not make complete sense, but try changing around science and religion in your post so it does.

Identity · 2007-11-23 05:58:28

Can you provide some proof from the bible for us to discuss?

mason777 · 2007-11-23 16:41:36

Devantè wrote:

mason777 wrote:
Yes but science is not true because... We have seen people. They do look like apes and act like them. But religio has proof. The bible is true. You should take a look at it and see what you find. I know it is very hard to believe but if you work you can learn.
Saying science is not true is totally incorrect.
What you have said does not make complete sense, but try changing around science and religion in your post so it does.

ok if you say so.

mason777 · 2007-11-23 16:42:41

Identity wrote:

Can you provide some proof from the bible for us to discuss?

Well you need to be reading also .

mason777 · 2007-11-23 16:44:01

God is not a religen it is true i would die before i say it was a lie.

Devantè · 2007-11-23 20:16:56

The fact of the matter is, no one can really argue. Everyone has their own beliefs in something, maybe even superstitions. But who are we to say that it is all a lie?

Identity · 2007-11-23 20:29:32

Who are we humans to say anything at all?

Devantè · 2007-11-23 20:48:01

Who are we?

Identity · 2007-11-23 20:55:44

Why?

Devantè · 2007-11-23 23:48:24

Wha?

Identity · 2007-11-24 03:32:38

Ah yes sorry for the spaminess, we'd better get back to the topic. God.

Why you should believe in god:
1. He's a good pal
2. He listens to everything you say
3. He is omnipotent and omniscient
4. He's got a lot of responsibility

luca-deltodesco · 2007-11-24 05:37:53

Reasons why religion/god can be good:
1. It can give support to people
2. It can give people a reason to 'keep going'

etc.

Reasons why religion/god can be bad:
1. There is no one interpretation of anything, and many people would force they're own needs into their own intepretation and use religion/god as an excuse to do inhumane things etc.
2. While giving support, it can also be bad in leading people to have false hopes.

etc.

John E. Franklin · 2007-11-24 10:00:54

If God is True, hence therefore, Dog is False.

mathsyperson · 2007-11-24 11:18:19

True or false: Madam.

Zach · 2007-11-24 12:10:50

Madam = True.
Madame = Truer.

Then comes things that aren't allowed around here because of the kindywinks.

Also, Gott ist tot

Identity · 2007-11-24 12:16:01

I'm still waiting for Godot.

Ricky · 2007-11-25 10:06:05

Reasons why religion/god can be good:
1. It can give support to people
2. It can give people a reason to 'keep going'

Yet I help people all the time without a belief in a god. And I keep going because of self motivation.

Both great and tragic things have been done in the name of God. Food has been given to the sick and hungry, but one must not forget the wars fought. If there is one common theme behind a belief in a higher power, it is motivation. Motivation to help, and motivation to kill. However the case, belief in God has caused many sane people to do otherwise insane things.

I believe religion in general did serve a purpose. It united people for a common cause, helped structure society, and gave us answers (however incorrect they may be) when we were otherwise ignorant. I also believe that the human mind has evolved enough to a point where religion does not serve a purpose, or at least not as great of one as it did before.

luca-deltodesco · 2007-11-25 10:22:31

Ricky wrote:

Reasons why religion/god can be good:
1. It can give support to people
2. It can give people a reason to 'keep going'
Yet I help people all the time without a belief in a god. And I keep going because of self motivation.

i didn't say 'it is the only way to...'

holy wars etc, is what i meant by the using it as an excuse etc.

NullRoot · 2007-11-26 21:57:24

Call me naive, but I'd be willing to bet that when God(s) are used to justify war, people already have a personal agenda and God(s) are just a convenient excuse to get funding and/or military backing for their little excursion.

EDIT: "they" -> "people"

Last edited by NullRoot (2007-11-27 03:22:21)

bossk171 · 2007-11-27 04:10:36

NullRoot wrote:

Call me naive, but I'd be willing to bet that when God(s) are used to justify war, people already have a personal agenda and God(s) are just a convenient excuse to get funding and/or military backing for their little excursion.
EDIT: "they" -> "people"

I absolutely agree. I don't believe that religion is the reason the crusades happened or the reason we are met with terrorism today, those things are inevitable, born out of the violent nature of a few individuals. If there were no God to such things in the name of, they would come up with something/someone else to them for.

I believe in God (and his son in the Christian sense) but my beliefs are personal and don't require me to force you to see it my way. I'm sharing my views here because the conversation calls for it.

mason77: I think you're coming on a little strong. I know where you're coming from, and in many ways I agree, but imagine if someone walked up to you and told you there was no God. You wouldn't believe them. Now they're giving you this book that says there is no God, that's really not making a differance to you still. Really there's nothing this person can say to convince you that there is no God, and they're really just being a pain. You can't force someone to understand you.

Ricky: I can offer the proof of God you asked mason77 for, but unfortunately, "proof" of that sort of thing is very personal. I believe that God is a driving force in my life because he made himself known to me some time ago. The way he went about it would be meaningless to anyone else though, because God has his own sort of relationship with everyone, and it's always different. As a side note, I think writing God off because he does not serve a purpose is a particularly foolish thing to do, especially on a Math website. Think of all the things in pure mathematics (like all of G H Hardy's work and what not) that don't serve a purpose, that doesn't make them any less existent.

All in all this is an awesome conversation, keep it coming!

Kargoneth · 2007-12-19 13:39:25

How delicious... one of my favourite subjects...

From my point of view, God is false.

Why?

1. Humans are imperfect things
2. Imperfect things cannot create perfect things
3. Religions were created by humans therefore religions are imperfect
4. Sciences were created by humans therefore sciences are imperfect
5. Reproducing religious evidence cannot be reasonably reproduced by outside testers, yet scientific evidence can
6. Human language cannot possibly describe everything, as it was created by humans.
7. Divine power cannot be measured
8. The bible is not a source of absolute truth, as it often contradicts itself, it was written over many centuries, and it was written by humans
9. Human memory is imperfect, what we think we remember can vary dramatically from what we actually perceived.

That being said, if there is a god or gods, and they are forgiving, understanding, and they created me, then they should be able to understand that I need personal evidence to believe in their existence, and will forgive my imperfection which they themselves created. If there is an afterlife, and I am sapient within it, then sign me up. Either way, I am still going to lead a fulfilled and enjoyable life as long as I can, because I don't want to try and wait for something that, by my opinion, does not likely exist. I'll take my *positive* rewards now, instead of after dying, thank you.

Last edited by Kargoneth (2007-12-19 13:42:42)

Math Is Fun Forum

#26 2007-11-22 16:08:34

Re: God is true

#27 2007-11-22 16:10:31

Re: God is true

#28 2007-11-22 22:05:21

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#29 2007-11-23 04:43:40

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#30 2007-11-23 04:49:34

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