Discussion about math, puzzles, games and fun. Useful symbols: ÷ × ½ √ ∞ ≠ ≤ ≥ ≈ ⇒ ± ∈ Δ θ ∴ ∑ ∫ π -¹ ² ³ °

You are not logged in.

- Topics: Active | Unanswered

**21122012****Member**- Registered: 2012-11-16
- Posts: 278

So a simple question which will check the theory in practice:

On the OX axis we postpone the square party:

, on the OY axis the square area . What geometrical figure (what function from ) will be represented in the form of the line of the schedule of function?I to you now will say one secret. When you postpone argument

on the OX axes and for example function on the OY axis and you build the function schedule, you receive function . In Solid geometry you would receive a cube . But you build on the Planimetrics therefore you receive a rectangle . And schedule points - tops of this rectangle with a variable area and variables respectively the parties and the areas of sides. Here almost SA beginning.Each element of the area (Planimetrics) has analog in volume (Solid geometry)

For example:

abscissa axis

ordinate axis - the area of a side of a cube ;

the area - pyramid volume;

and etc.

**"The conditions imposed on functions, become a source of difficulties which will manage to be avoided only by means of new researches about the principles of integral calculus"**

** Thomas Ioannes Stiltes.** ...

Offline

**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 84,547

Link inserted as requested.

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.**

Offline

**21122012****Member**- Registered: 2012-11-16
- Posts: 278

Hi, bob bundy!

I respect your desire to think and ability to achieve that that you want. I the such. But you excuse you don't understand that me the cone doesn't interest. Me Calculus interests. I gave an example from Wikipedia where by means of Calculus the mistake in real calculations was made. There the result was received.

I approve that this result - a mistake. For what you write me that that me doesn't interest? If you want to prove that it so:

- is a formula of a full derivative of volume of a cone on height.- prove!

**"The conditions imposed on functions, become a source of difficulties which will manage to be avoided only by means of new researches about the principles of integral calculus"**

** Thomas Ioannes Stiltes.** ...

Offline

**21122012****Member**- Registered: 2012-11-16
- Posts: 278

I will try to explain once again to you in what an error of the theory of Calculus which leads to a mistake in practice in language of mathematicians understanding integral and differential calculus. If you and now don't understand, excuse but I should draw pictures and to explain as school students who only start studying of these sections of mathematics.

Here endurance from my first post:

21122012 wrote:

ONE OF MANY ERRORS IN CALCULUS.

In the calculus there are mistakes in establishment of rules and general view's formulas because some special cases were given sense of the general view.

The initial formula is given in Wiki in the form of function from two independent variables. On a decision course this formula replaced with a formula in the form of function from one variable. The answer wrote down again in the form of function of two variables. This forgery is caused by imperfection of Calculus! I gave Structural Analysis's rules which eliminate this practical's error in Calculus theory!

21122012 wrote:

#154

If

that

! or !But if

that

!If

and - independent variables:But if

P.S.

It isn't necessary to confuse concept height as distance from the cone basis to its top

and concept an independent variable because this value of :*Last edited by 21122012 (2012-12-10 10:22:48)*

**"The conditions imposed on functions, become a source of difficulties which will manage to be avoided only by means of new researches about the principles of integral calculus"**

** Thomas Ioannes Stiltes.** ...

Offline

**21122012****Member**- Registered: 2012-11-16
- Posts: 278

I have no right at this forum to publish links.

"h ttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partial_derivative"

The machine blocks as spam. I will show the first and last formulas:

...

** Thomas Ioannes Stiltes.** ...

Offline

**21122012****Member**- Registered: 2012-11-16
- Posts: 278

Not!

** Thomas Ioannes Stiltes.** ...

Offline

**21122012****Member**- Registered: 2012-11-16
- Posts: 278

I don't understand: I at a forum where mathematics or who communicates?

Well I will write once again see post #174

** Thomas Ioannes Stiltes.** ...

Offline

**21122012****Member**- Registered: 2012-11-16
- Posts: 278

See post #174

What from this it isn't clear to you? !

Here it is written in mathematical language by formulas.

Make endurance: what exactly from this isn't clear to you!

- true; - true; - true; - not true.

*Last edited by 21122012 (2012-12-10 10:20:22)*

** Thomas Ioannes Stiltes.** ...

Offline

**21122012****Member**- Registered: 2012-11-16
- Posts: 278

Hi, bobbym!

Insert link:

h ttp://vladimir938.eto-ya.com/files/2012/12/cylinder.jpg

** Thomas Ioannes Stiltes.** ...

Offline

**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 84,547

Hi;

This is the link you want.

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.**

Offline

**21122012****Member**- Registered: 2012-11-16
- Posts: 278

You are right for your understanding. I nervous from your questions. Though it can be formal any letter which designates volume. May be G, M...

But I better now will correct and that I already am afraid of excess questions.

It everything that to you is unclear? The rest is clear? !

Now to a question: what Structural Analysis what can't Calculus? SA can describe formulas geometrical constructions and figures. For example:

h ttp://vladimir938.eto-ya.com/files/2012/12/geometry.jpg

h ttp://vladimir938.eto-ya.com/files/2012/12/g.jpg

(bobbym insert please)

*Last edited by 21122012 (2012-12-10 10:28:58)*

** Thomas Ioannes Stiltes.** ...

Offline

**21122012****Member**- Registered: 2012-11-16
- Posts: 278

bob bundy, It everything that to you is unclear? The rest is clear? !

** Thomas Ioannes Stiltes.** ...

Offline

**21122012****Member**- Registered: 2012-11-16
- Posts: 278

All is still worse than I thought...

1.

2.

Look post #181:

- true;At you:

- true, This same at .but this function:

3.

If you made two variables dependent that their values won't be able to be independent any more

*Last edited by 21122012 (2012-12-10 17:44:50)*

** Thomas Ioannes Stiltes.** ...

Offline

**21122012****Member**- Registered: 2012-11-16
- Posts: 278

I offer you here that. Why to us cone? Give more simply. Let's consider the rectangle area, as function of two independent variables:

Look D.1 D.2 in post #81.

and look this:

h ttp://vladimir938.eto-ya.com/files/2012/12/yx.jpg

In WIKI it is claimed that:

If

Do you agree?

*Last edited by 21122012 (2012-12-10 12:53:02)*

** Thomas Ioannes Stiltes.** ...

Offline

**21122012****Member**- Registered: 2012-11-16
- Posts: 278

Your mistake and error of Calculus here:

Look animation #140

On the left and in center: r,h - independent; On the right: r, h - dependent.

Than I still can help you that you understood in what difference of dependent variables from independent variables?!

*Last edited by 21122012 (2012-12-10 14:00:24)*

** Thomas Ioannes Stiltes.** ...

Offline

**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 84,547

Hi 21122012;

I inserted the images as you requested.

**In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.**

Offline

**21122012****Member**- Registered: 2012-11-16
- Posts: 278

What Structural Analysis what can't Calculus? SA can describe formulas geometrical constructions and figures.

Calculus of it can't do because uses an incorrect formula:

It doesn't give the chance to describe geometrical objects. In SA instead of it two formulas are applied:

which allow to make it.

*Last edited by 21122012 (2012-12-11 12:59:02)*

** Thomas Ioannes Stiltes.** ...

Offline

**bobbym****Administrator**- From: Bumpkinland
- Registered: 2009-04-12
- Posts: 84,547

No more threads like

One of errors of Calculus and bob bundy

it is rude to mention someone like that. You will stop immediately.

I am also done with inserting images. I think you have enough of them. Please latex them up yourself like everyone else does.

I have the result, but I do not yet know how to get it.

All physicists, and a good many quite respectable mathematicians are contemptuous about proof.

Offline

**21122012****Member**- Registered: 2012-11-16
- Posts: 278

Strange nobody disproved any my argument but nobody said yes I agrees with it, with it I don't know agrees or not because I don't understand. It is strange why there is no identity everyone looks that will tell another.

** Thomas Ioannes Stiltes.** ...

Offline

**21122012****Member**- Registered: 2012-11-16
- Posts: 278

Hi bobbym!

Show me please at least one mistake in my reasonings!

** Thomas Ioannes Stiltes.** ...

Offline

**anonimnystefy****Real Member**- From: The Foundation
- Registered: 2011-05-23
- Posts: 15,388

Hi 21122012

We have already shown you your mistakes, but you do not listen. Why should we continie talking to you about this?

Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.

Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most. ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment

Offline

**21122012****Member**- Registered: 2012-11-16
- Posts: 278

anonimnystefy wrote:

Hi 21122012

We have already shown you your mistakes, but you do not listen. Why should we continie talking to you about this?

Probably, I very inattentive also didn't notice mistakes which you showed me. I specially began a new subject that bob bundby showed me my mistake and I saw it. But a subject for some reason removed. I didn't understand where I was mistaken when claimed that it is cylinder instead of cone volume:

I don't see in it a mistake. Show you to me it, please.

** Thomas Ioannes Stiltes.** ...

Offline

**21122012****Member**- Registered: 2012-11-16
- Posts: 278

Finally to be convinced that in your understanding the cone differs from the cylinder, give me please a similar formula for the cylinder volume that I saw a difference:

** Thomas Ioannes Stiltes.** ...

Offline

**21122012****Member**- Registered: 2012-11-16
- Posts: 278

We consider integral calculus. Your formula:

is given in an algebraic look.

Don't confuse one to another. I showed (#174) formulas:

- (1); - (2); - (3);In WIKIPEDIA

case is considered.

If the entry condition:

and a final formula:

that it means (2) case.

Introduction during calculation of a condition:

contradicts an entry condition:

Under an entry condition:

this expression:

doesn't make sense as contradicts a statement of the problem:

The formula:

is:

- (3);If Calculus used any rules and a formula:

considers as a formula of volume of a cone, means in these rules there is a mistake. It is necessary to find it and to eliminate.

What in my reasonings it is incorrect?

*Last edited by 21122012 (2012-12-13 07:52:44)*

** Thomas Ioannes Stiltes.** ...

Offline

**21122012****Member**- Registered: 2012-11-16
- Posts: 278

I to you will give such analogy. The entry condition is given: ABC triangle. Then you begin some manipulations and you speak: Let A, B, C lie on one line. But you can't lay down such condition because it contradicts a statement of the problem: ABC - a triangle and A,B,C - CAN not LIE ON ONE LINE! ! !

** Thomas Ioannes Stiltes.** ...

Offline