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#1 2013-11-13 05:11:58

Agnishom
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From: The Complex Plane
Registered: 2011-01-29
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Is the universe open source or closed?

title asks it all


'And fun? If maths is fun, then getting a tooth extraction is fun. A viral infection is fun. Rabies shots are fun.'
'God exists because Mathematics is consistent, and the devil exists because we cannot prove it'
'Humanity is still kept intact. It remains within.' -Alokananda

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#2 2013-11-13 05:45:04

anonimnystefy
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From: The Foundation
Registered: 2011-05-23
Posts: 15,507

Re: Is the universe open source or closed?

The question does not make sense.


“Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.

“Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment

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#3 2013-11-13 06:00:16

gAr
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Registered: 2011-01-09
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Re: Is the universe open source or closed?

More obfuscated than http://ioccc.org/


"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense"  - Buddha?

"Data! Data! Data!" he cried impatiently. "I can't make bricks without clay."

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#4 2013-11-13 06:14:56

bobbym
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From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
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Re: Is the universe open source or closed?

Lots of software contains much obfuscated code...

Didn't Einstein believe that the universe was designed to be understandable?


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
Of course that result can be rigorously obtained, but who cares?
Combinatorics is Algebra and Algebra is Combinatorics.

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#5 2013-11-13 13:27:22

Agnishom
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From: The Complex Plane
Registered: 2011-01-29
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Re: Is the universe open source or closed?

anonimnystefy wrote:

The question does not make sense.

Well something is open source when full information about its creation is completely available.

What we perceive to be our universe could be a computer simulation that is being run by creatures of higher conciousness


'And fun? If maths is fun, then getting a tooth extraction is fun. A viral infection is fun. Rabies shots are fun.'
'God exists because Mathematics is consistent, and the devil exists because we cannot prove it'
'Humanity is still kept intact. It remains within.' -Alokananda

Online

#6 2013-11-13 20:53:39

anonimnystefy
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From: The Foundation
Registered: 2011-05-23
Posts: 15,507

Re: Is the universe open source or closed?

Agnishom wrote:
anonimnystefy wrote:

The question does not make sense.

Well something is open source when full information about its creation is completely available.

What we perceive to be our universe could be a computer simulation that is being run by creatures of higher conciousness

Then it might be open source, but that does not mean it is available to us.

The universe might be a simulation, but that has no implications whatsoever for it.


“Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.

“Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment

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#7 2013-11-13 22:06:20

niharika_kumar
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From: Numeraland
Registered: 2013-02-12
Posts: 992

Re: Is the universe open source or closed?

I feel its open source and it depends on us how far we can go.


friendship is tan 90°.

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#8 2013-11-14 03:40:31

bobbym
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From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 85,261

Re: Is the universe open source or closed?

Looks like there are parts of it that are locked away in old fashioned ROM.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
Of course that result can be rigorously obtained, but who cares?
Combinatorics is Algebra and Algebra is Combinatorics.

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#9 2013-11-14 07:14:46

anonimnystefy
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From: The Foundation
Registered: 2011-05-23
Posts: 15,507

Re: Is the universe open source or closed?

I do not see why we should look at the open-sourcedness from our point of view. It might be open source to the minds who created the simulation.


“Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.

“Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment

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#10 2013-11-14 20:40:38

bobbym
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From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 85,261

Re: Is the universe open source or closed?

That would seem unfair would it not?


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
Of course that result can be rigorously obtained, but who cares?
Combinatorics is Algebra and Algebra is Combinatorics.

Online

#11 2013-11-14 21:25:45

anonimnystefy
Real Member
From: The Foundation
Registered: 2011-05-23
Posts: 15,507

Re: Is the universe open source or closed?

Why?


“Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.

“Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment

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#12 2013-11-15 02:09:29

bobbym
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From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 85,261

Re: Is the universe open source or closed?

Then it would only be possible to be known to a few.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
Of course that result can be rigorously obtained, but who cares?
Combinatorics is Algebra and Algebra is Combinatorics.

Online

#13 2013-11-15 06:16:14

anonimnystefy
Real Member
From: The Foundation
Registered: 2011-05-23
Posts: 15,507

Re: Is the universe open source or closed?

bobbym wrote:

Then it would only be possible to be known to a few.

Not necessarily. We do not know what the higher beings are and what their number is.


“Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.

“Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment

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#14 2013-11-15 06:20:47

bobbym
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From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 85,261

Re: Is the universe open source or closed?

Forget the higher beings, what about the lower beings? Must they remain dummies for eternity? Once a dummy, always a dummy?


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
Of course that result can be rigorously obtained, but who cares?
Combinatorics is Algebra and Algebra is Combinatorics.

Online

#15 2013-11-15 06:22:24

anonimnystefy
Real Member
From: The Foundation
Registered: 2011-05-23
Posts: 15,507

Re: Is the universe open source or closed?

How do you expect a computer program to generate its own code?


“Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.

“Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment

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#16 2013-11-15 06:32:13

bobbym
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From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 85,261

Re: Is the universe open source or closed?

Back in the past there was an attempt to write software that would write code for itself. I do not know what became of it.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
Of course that result can be rigorously obtained, but who cares?
Combinatorics is Algebra and Algebra is Combinatorics.

Online

#17 2013-11-15 06:35:15

anonimnystefy
Real Member
From: The Foundation
Registered: 2011-05-23
Posts: 15,507

Re: Is the universe open source or closed?

Wouldn't that be like an attempt of creating a Turing machine that evaluates if a given Turing machine halts?


“Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.

“Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment

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#18 2013-11-15 06:39:46

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 85,261

Re: Is the universe open source or closed?

I do not know, the last time I read about a Turing machine I had a migraine for a week.

The point being undoubtedly the designer knows the code best. Can others reverse engineer some of what he did? I think we already know the answer to that.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
Of course that result can be rigorously obtained, but who cares?
Combinatorics is Algebra and Algebra is Combinatorics.

Online

#19 2013-11-15 20:24:00

Agnishom
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From: The Complex Plane
Registered: 2011-01-29
Posts: 16,226
Website

Re: Is the universe open source or closed?

anonimnystefy wrote:

How do you expect a computer program to generate its own code?

That is called a Quine!


'And fun? If maths is fun, then getting a tooth extraction is fun. A viral infection is fun. Rabies shots are fun.'
'God exists because Mathematics is consistent, and the devil exists because we cannot prove it'
'Humanity is still kept intact. It remains within.' -Alokananda

Online

#20 2013-11-15 22:27:04

bobbym
Administrator
From: Bumpkinland
Registered: 2009-04-12
Posts: 85,261

Re: Is the universe open source or closed?

Also, they were working on generating improved code or totally new.


In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
Of course that result can be rigorously obtained, but who cares?
Combinatorics is Algebra and Algebra is Combinatorics.

Online

#21 2013-11-15 23:55:09

anonimnystefy
Real Member
From: The Foundation
Registered: 2011-05-23
Posts: 15,507

Re: Is the universe open source or closed?

Agnishom wrote:
anonimnystefy wrote:

How do you expect a computer program to generate its own code?

That is called a Quine!

Yeah, but no code can refer to itself directly if we don't make it as such..


“Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.

“Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment

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#22 2013-11-16 00:40:50

Agnishom
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From: The Complex Plane
Registered: 2011-01-29
Posts: 16,226
Website

Re: Is the universe open source or closed?

Okay, but like the DNA can replicate itself, Imagine that the simulation clones itself and runs a disassembler on its copy?


'And fun? If maths is fun, then getting a tooth extraction is fun. A viral infection is fun. Rabies shots are fun.'
'God exists because Mathematics is consistent, and the devil exists because we cannot prove it'
'Humanity is still kept intact. It remains within.' -Alokananda

Online

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