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#3526 Re: This is Cool » what is discrete math? » 2006-01-31 10:26:18

Discrete math is a compilation of different types of math.  My discrete math started off with something like boolean algebra.

Boolean algebra allows you to reduce statements into simpler ones.  For example:

Let a, b, and c be boolean.

(a and b) or (a and c) = a or (b and c), i.e. these two statements have the same truth values for any a, b, or c.  If (a and b) or (a and c) is false, so is a or (b and c).

It also has rules for negations:

not (a and b) = (not a) or (not b)

In programming, it makes writing if statements much more clear.

Discrete math, for me, went from boolean algebra, to proofs (forward, contrapositive, contradiction, and induction), to sets, operations, and functions.

The only application for discrete math in programming is function analysis, i.e. seeing how long a piece of code would take to run.

#3527 Re: Help Me ! » why does the 5 square trick work » 2006-01-29 16:44:05

100a(a + 1) so you multiply tens by tens plus one, by putting it in front of 25 you "multiply" by 100.

If that wasn't clear, what you are doing is getting them number a(a+1) like you said (3*4), and then shifting that over two digits to make room for the 25 on the right.

Nicely done kempos.

#3530 Re: This is Cool » a program that searches for values of pi » 2006-01-28 11:29:19

Using better values for pi, I got:

103993 / 33102 = 3.141592653

On a computer, you can't get more exact with 64bit float values (double).  However, I have long been thinking of making a float class which can represent n bit values by using arrays, maybe I'll start working on that now.

#3531 Re: This is Cool » a program that searches for values of pi » 2006-01-28 08:11:41

You can improve the algorithm quite a bit by only testing x values which around a multiple of 3:

#include <iostream>
#include <math.h>
#include <iomanip>

using namespace std;

int main()
{
    cout << setprecision(10);
    for (double y = 1; y <= 100000; y++) {
        for (double x = y*3; x/y < 22.0/7.0; x++) {
            //cout << "HERE" << endl;
            if (x / y > 3.1415926 && x / y < 3.1415927) {
                cout << x << " / " << y << " = " << x / y << endl;
                return 0;
            }
        }
    }
    return 0;
}

86953 / 27678 = 3.141592601

#3532 Re: Help Me ! » Recursions » 2006-01-28 04:40:13

ii. By the ratio test:

Since

<
for all n:

< 1

Which means that the series converges, although I know of no tests that actually find this number.

And why isn't the latex '<' not working?

#3533 Re: Help Me ! » try to get X » 2006-01-28 04:09:35

(x²-x-1)(x²+3x+3)

#3534 Jokes » Plus C » 2006-01-27 13:52:24

Ricky
Replies: 4

Two guys in a local diner were having a debate.  One thought that their waiter was a high school drop out, and had never seen anything as advanced as calculus.  The other thought that she did.

The first guy had to go to the bathroom, and while he was gone, the other called the waiter over to the table.  He told her that if she said, "one third x cubed" when he asked her a question, he would tip her an extra $5.

The other man came back from the bathroom.  The second guy said, "I bet you $10 she knows the integral of x squared."  The first guy said, "You're on."  So he called the waiter over, asked her the question, and she said, "one third x cubed."

The waiter turned to leave, but snapped back for one second, turned her head over her shoulder, said, "Plus C," and walked off.

#3535 Re: Help Me ! » line triangle intersection point » 2006-01-27 13:42:24

What is your equation for the line?  Parametric?

What is your equation for the triangle?  Vectors?

Which vertices of the triangle do you wish to find?  There are two where the line intersects the side of the triangle.  Both?

The line also intersect both sides of the triangle, unless it is tangent to a vertice.  Is this what you mean?

#3536 Re: Help Me ! » Solving a system on nonlinear equations » 2006-01-26 06:35:15

Convergence of a solution?  Convergence is normally described for a function, not an equation.  I'm not sure what you mean by convergence in this context.

#3537 Re: Help Me ! » Solving a system on nonlinear equations » 2006-01-26 06:02:10

Consider the square, nonlinear, independant equations:

x² + y² = 0
x² + y² = 1

In short, the answer is no.

#3538 Re: Help Me ! » Coin flip question? » 2006-01-26 05:53:21

rickyoswaldiow wrote:

I guess that it'll land in akward position between two objects and thus land neither on heads or tails smile

The quantum physics joke is that the coin lands and stays on it's side, and is both heads and tails at the same time.  Wave/Particle duality rocks!

#3539 Re: Help Me ! » What is the difference between a ring, a group, and a field? » 2006-01-25 17:19:06

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_%28mathematics%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_%28mathematics%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_%28mathematics%29

#3541 Re: Help Me ! » Coin flip question? » 2006-01-25 16:27:47

I think my biology professor said it best:

"If you think that the coin will have anything but a 50/50 chance on the next flip, then you would have to think that the coin a) has the ability to realize what has happened in the past and b) has the ability to change the future.  If you still want to stick to your answer, there are paramedics standing by."

#3542 Re: Help Me ! » This problem is going to kill me » 2006-01-24 12:36:19

I would say a lower order is simpler.  But then again, simple is all in context.  A more complex statement is simpler if it allows you to simplify a larger statement that it's in.

#3543 Re: Help Me ! » Should be easy proof » 2006-01-24 12:32:53

Oh heck, why not.  The below is a formal proof of the first one.

Prove that for all odd integers n and m, that nm is also odd.

Proof: Let n and m be odd integers. 

This means that n = 2k + 1, where k ∈ Z, and m = 2l + 1, where l ∈ Z.

Then, n*m = (2k + 1)(2l + 1) = 4kl + 2k + 2l + 1 = 2(2kl + k + l)
Since 2kl + k + l must be an integer, let 2kl + k + l = x, where x ∈ Z.
Thus, n*m = 2x + 1.

∴ n*m must be an odd number.  QED.

#3544 Re: Help Me ! » Understanding Sines » 2006-01-24 12:29:19

until the final loop where I get a tiny value

Why is a tiny value incorrect if you are trying to get values from 0 to 1?

If you are coding this on a computer or calculator, please, post your code.

#3545 Re: Help Me ! » product rule problem.... » 2006-01-24 12:25:35

i belive im supposed to use the product rule. but i cannot seem to get the correct answer.

Always post all your work.  Not only does it make it easier for us, but it shows us exactly where you went wrong.

How far is the electron from the origin when it momentarily stops?

You need to find out when it stops, aka when velocity is 0.  So to find an equation for speed, you need to take the derivative of the distance (location).

It sounded like you already knew that, so what are you having trouble with?  Just taking the derivative?

#3546 Re: Help Me ! » Should be easy proof » 2006-01-24 12:22:13

What class are you in?  Do you wish to do a formal proof?  Formal proofs just mean you follow a certain structure in writing your proof.  I can help you on writing a formal one if you need it.  But if you're in high school, I doubt that you will.  That being said, the below is not formal:

There are two main ways you prove positive statements (if X, then Y).  One is a direct proof, and if you can do it this way, it is recommended you do so.

In a direct proof, you assum the "if" part, and try to show that this means the "then" part is true.

For all integers n and m, P(n,m) -> Q(n,m)

This means if P(n, m) is true, then Q(n, m) is true.  That's the same meaning as implies, as you wrote.

So we consider P(n, m) to be true.  That is, let n and m be odd integers.

What does this mean about n and m?  What is the definition of odd?  The offical definition is any integer n is odd when n = 2k + 1, where k is any integer.  Lets do the same for m: m = 2l + 1.  Note, you can't use k for both, as that would imply that n and m are both the same odd integers.

n = 2k+ 1, m = 2l + 1

Now we wish to show that nm is an odd integer.

nm = ?
nm = (2k + 1)(2l + 1)
nm = 4kl + 2k + 2l + 1

Is that number odd?  It should be apparent that it is.  This is because we can factor out a 2:

nm = 2(2kl + k + l) + 1

What is 2kl + k + l?  Why, that's an integer!  Let 2kl + k + l = x, where x is an integer.

nm = 2x + 1

Isn't that what we said our defintion of odd was?  So nm must be odd.

You try the second one, it should be easy.  The reason?  All you have to do is work the first one in reverse.  Start from the conclusion, and work your way back up.

For the thrid one, P(n,m) <-> Q(n,m), all you need to show is that P(n, m) -> Q(n, m) and Q(n, m) -> P(n, m).  And that's exactly what the first two are.  So once you've done these, all you have to do is state that the third is therefore true.

#3547 Re: Help Me ! » Find two numbers from a single number » 2006-01-24 12:10:42

U told that THERE IS NO SUCH FUNCTION...SO CAN SUCH A FUNCTION COME???

Nope.  Never.  Not tomorrow, not in a million years.  Through the pigeon hole principle, we have shown that such a thing is impossible.  And unlike the matrix, there are no bending the rules in math, even in matrix math.

Any way let me know some personal thing about u???Are u a student??What do u do??

I'm a sophomore in college at Virginia Tech.  Right now, I'm a double math and computer science major.  The two complement each other nicely.  I use math in programming for things like modeling physical systems, and I use programming to solve some complex things in math.

#3548 Re: Help Me ! » Groups, operations, and identities, oh my! » 2006-01-24 06:12:13

i * b = b, a * b = b

i * b = a * b

Let b-¹ be the inverse of b, which must exist since it's a group.

(i * b) * b-¹ = (a * b) * b-¹

The operation is associative so:

i * (b * b-¹) = a * (b * b-¹)

Definition of inverse, b * b-¹ = i (identity must be unique).

i * i = a * i
i * i = i, and a * i = a
i = a

That look good?

#3549 Help Me ! » Groups, operations, and identities, oh my! » 2006-01-24 05:17:27

Ricky
Replies: 1

In doing a proof, I am on the last step, but I can't quite seem to get it:

I have a group G and operation * (note: * is any operation, not just multiplying).  The definition of a group is at the bottom.

Let i ∈ G be the identity in G.  You can assume the identity is unique (I can prove that easily).   I know that i * b = b, and a * b = b.  It seems rather obvious that i = a, and thus, a is the identity.  However, I am not sure how to explicitly state that.  Anyone know?


Definition of a group: A group is a set G and an operation * which is:

Associative: For all a, b, c ∈ G, a * (b * c) = (a * b) * c
Has an identity: There exist an e ∈ G, such that for all a ∈ G, a * e = a and e * a = a
Has an inverse: For all a ∈ G, there exists b ∈ G, such that a * b = e and b * a = e

#3550 Re: Help Me ! » Find two numbers from a single number » 2006-01-24 05:05:36

I completely understand what you are saying.  But each element of A is two elements.

You have a function: f(x, y).  You can't just plug one number into that.  You have to plug two in.  Because of these, the elements in set A become (n, m), where n and m are from 0-255.

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