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#3701 Re: Help Me ! » Very interesting problems.. » 2005-12-26 09:20:37

And you don't have to check form 1 to 100. It's enough ot check from 1 to n.

Krassi, you keep saying that, and I believe this is the third time I'm asking, what is n?  The examples in this thread contradict the notion that it is the number of elements in the circle.  So what is n?

#3702 Re: Help Me ! » lg problem » 2005-12-26 03:23:33

Proof: This proof is by induction on n.

(Base Case) Let n = 25.  Then 25! > 10^25.  So the base case holds.

(Inductive Assumption) Now let n be an arbitrary number, such that n ≥ 25.  Assume that n! > 10^n.

Since n ≥ 25, n+1 > 10.  Also, since we already know n! > 10^n:

(n+1)*n! > 10*10^n, or rather, (n+1)! > 10^(n+1).

∴By the principle of mathematical induction, n! > 10^n for all n ≥ 25.  QED.

#3703 Re: Jokes » joke about pi » 2005-12-25 17:45:16

Gahnesh, I believe it's just pronounced "Seven."  Se7en is the name of a movie concerning the seven deadly sins.

#3704 Re: Help Me ! » exponential equations » 2005-12-25 17:40:11

Reason why I don't understand the above: Even if a = 0 in a^x = a^y, surely x still equals y.

Nope, not true.  0^4 = 0^5.

Reason why I don't understand the above: Again, even if a = 1 in a^x = a^y, surely x still equals y.

Yea, but can you really call this exponential?  If you do, then just about every single equation is exponential.  Example:

y = x^2 + 2.

Certainly doesn't seem exponential, does it?  But watch:

y = x^2 + 2 * (1^x)

Since for all values, 1^x = 1, these are the same equations.  Now would you call this exponential?  Nah, it makes no sense to.

#3705 Re: Help Me ! » Very interesting problems.. » 2005-12-24 13:01:20

Try to arrange in a circulare sequence all the numbers from 1 to n. (1,2,3,4,...,n)

When you say this, you are saying you need to include every single integer from 1 to n.  For example, a list of size 5 would look like:

1 3 4 2 5

Of course, that isn't an answer because they don't all add up to perfect squares.  Is this what you mean?  Examples in previous posts have been different:

1 24 12 4 5 11 14 2 7 9 27 22 3

It's a list of size 13, but it includes number not within the range 1 to 13.

Which of these are right?

#3706 Re: Jokes » Limericks » 2005-12-24 05:10:01

Only it's been falsified by it's creation.

#3708 Re: Help Me ! » Very interesting problems.. » 2005-12-23 14:49:33

FOR WHICH ENTIRES  N>1 is possible ARRANGE IN A CERTAIN WAY ALL THE ENTIRE NUMBERS 1,2,3...,n AROUND A CIRCLE

I'm still getting confused with this "all" thing.  When you say all numbers 1, 2, 3... N, I think you need:

1, 2, 3, .... N-2, N-1, N all in the list.

Apparently, that is not the case (from your examples).  So I take it that N is just the highest number you use.  Is that right?

#3709 Re: Help Me ! » Very interesting problems.. » 2005-12-23 12:24:12

I'm still not sure what n is...  At first I thought it was the size of the list (circle), but that can't be right.  Could you please clarify this?

#3710 Re: Help Me ! » Very interesting problems.. » 2005-12-23 12:05:44

I modified my program so that it selects from a list of integers from 1 to 100 and creates lists:

Edit: I realized my old program was producing duplicate results, for example:

2 34 47
2 47 34

So I made it eliminate (actually, not even check) these.

Size 3:

2 23 98
2 34 47
3 22 78
4 21 60
5 20 44
6 19 30
6 75 94
10 54 90
12 52 69
14 35 86
15 34 66
16 33 48
26 74 95
29 52 92
30 51 70
48 73 96

Size 4:
1 3 22 99
1 3 33 48
1 3 97 99
1 8 41 80
1 24 97 99
2 7 42 79
3 6 43 78
4 5 44 77

It's currently running, but takes quite a while.  I'll update posts with results as I get them.

#3711 Re: Help Me ! » Very interesting problems.. » 2005-12-23 11:36:17

&& stands for the logic AND

It sure does, at least in computer science.  But now apply that to:

Then Q && R = N

It doesn't make sense.

Does it mean intersection?

For example a right circular sequence could be this:
1 15 10 6 3

Hold on.  You said in your first post:

all the entire numbers from 1 to n

Doesn't that mean that 2, 4, 5, 7... 14 would also have to be in there?

#3712 Re: Help Me ! » Very interesting problems.. » 2005-12-23 10:43:48

Then Q && R = N.

How exactly would you say "&&"?

#3713 Re: Help Me ! » Very interesting problems.. » 2005-12-23 07:45:38

krassi_holmz wrote:

The the remainder of the sum of every two consecutive numbers when it's divided by 4 must be 0 or 1.

They don't have to be consecutive.  You can arrange them in any order you want around a circle, and every two numbers that are next to each other have to add up to a perfect square.

I prefer to see it as a list, then just add the first and last elements.  That's essentially what a circle is.

#3714 Re: Help Me ! » Very interesting problems.. » 2005-12-23 07:40:49

"The sum of all perfect squares is 2n(n+1)/2"

What exactly do you mean by the sum of all perfect squares?  That would be infinity.

Edit:

My program has ruled out all numbers up to a list of size 13.  Of course, with each size increase, the time it takes goes up by a factorial, so I fear it won't finish 20 by tonight.  We'll see.

#3715 Re: Help Me ! » Very interesting problems.. » 2005-12-23 06:52:58

√2, not perfect, not an integer.  Heck, not even rational.
√9 = 3, perfect square

#3716 Re: Jai Ganesh's Puzzles » Problems and Solutions » 2005-12-23 06:46:38

I worked up my own proof, but krassi beat me to it.  I figure I'd post it anyways.

#3717 Re: Help Me ! » Very interesting problems.. » 2005-12-23 04:50:04

I made program to try to solve it with brute force, but for even a list of size 20, it needs to build and test at least 10^20 different lists, since the function is O(n!).

It should hopefully be finished by tonight, I'll let you know if I get anything.

#3718 Re: Help Me ! » What does this notation mean? » 2005-12-23 03:23:46

I've only seen Z refer to integers, but like what krassi said, we need the context as well.

#3719 Re: Help Me ! » Finding an inverse function » 2005-12-21 14:03:40

Variable or constant, it doesn't matter, a is just a "label" for y.

For example:

y = x^2 + 2

z = y

z = x^2 + 2

You really aren't saying anything new, just calling y a different name.

#3720 Re: Help Me ! » tricky problem » 2005-12-21 03:37:33

mathsyperson wrote:

So it was basically trial and error, then. If it wasn't factorisable, you would have been there for quite a while.

Sort of.  Since the coefficients are all low numbers, you know the factors have to be low as well.  So you can just try all the low integer factors -5 to 5 and see if they work.  If those don't, you can be reasonably sure the factors aren't integers.

#3721 Re: Help Me ! » Finding an inverse function » 2005-12-21 03:32:50

If you draw the line y = x, the inverse of a function should be mirrored across that line.  That is, f(x,y) = f-¹(y,x)

But I still don't understand the use of the quadratic equation with y as a variable and
not y set to zero.

y isn't the variable.  x is:

yx² - Sx - SL = 0

a = y, b = -S, c = -SL

ax² + bx + c = 0

There are two ways to find the inverse.  Take y = f(x), and swap y with x, then solve for y.  This is more natural to most students because they are used to having y as the dependant variable and solving for it.

I prefer to take the other route.  That is, keep x and y in the same place and just solve for x.  You will find the same exact inverse, only x will be the dependant variable instead of y.

#3722 Re: Help Me ! » Log Question » 2005-12-21 03:10:51

Maybe he just has the midas touch.

#3723 Re: Help Me ! » tricky problem » 2005-12-20 14:19:37

"Or did Ricky divide by it because we had already known the root?"

I played around with the numbers, trying different factors till I found (x-2) was one.  Took me about 10 minutes to do.

#3724 Re: Help Me ! » tricky problem » 2005-12-20 00:44:38

Well, no one said math should be immediately apparent wink

If you don't want to try to factor, you could always try the cubic formula:

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/CubicFormula.html

So you don't have to have a calculator, but it is much simpler if you do.  Isn't that why those were invented anyways?

#3725 Re: Help Me ! » tricky problem » 2005-12-19 17:47:04

2x^3 - x^2 - 12 = 0

This can be factored to:

(x-2)(2x^2+3x+6) = 0

So x=2 is the only real solution (show by using the quadratic formula).

x=2, y(2) = 8 - 4 - 8 + 4 = 0

So the point is (2, 0).

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