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#551 Re: This is Cool » 0.9999....(recurring) = 1? » 2007-06-02 01:45:36

I've already illustrated my presumption many times.

The infinite thing, is only an approximation of finite thing. Pi behaves much like an long finite decimal instead of infinite decimal.(Can you drink Pi times of water particles?) So we don't need to consider the very problem of adding all digits together, we need only to pick up scores from them to add, which is more likely to mirror reality.
Pi can funtion as
3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841971693993751058209749445923078164062862089986280348253421170679
or
3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841971693993751058209749445923078164062862089986280348253421170679
8214808651328230664709384460955058223172535940812848111745028410270193852110555964462294895493038196

depending on the scales of the amount. Bigger glass of water, more digits.

#552 Re: This is Cool » 0.9999....(recurring) = 1? » 2007-06-02 01:37:38

Well the 0.999... thing is actually an infinite sum.

We don't have to tear basic finite sums by denying infinite sums.

Finite sums are natural, basic. You don't have to use Cantor Set, real defination to do the 1apple+1apple=2apples thing. This is more conservative. And the axiom for 1+1=2 is much simplier than a real axiom I can bet.

By denying getting as the result of approaching (limit concept), we don't lose application but perfection. We don't drink a cylinder of water, we drink poly-linder of water which can be approximated by a cylinder of water. No bother. Only a loss of seemingly perfection.

#553 Re: This is Cool » The Classic Slide Rule » 2007-06-02 01:28:16

This post on Trig functions and CI scale.

Open a new window with the virtual slide rule, and just look at the mid-scales in the sliding bar. Above the line there's a "T" symbol and below it an "S" symbol. Check the right end you will find that the T scale ends at 45 and that S ends at 90. Yes, T represents Tangent function, by degree. And S represent Sine function, by degree.

To be precise,

T=Arctan(C/10)
S=Arcsin(C/10)

or C= 10Tan(T)
   C=10Sin(S)

So when C=10, T=45 and S=90
when C=1, T=arcsin0.1 and S=arcsin0.1, yes, the domain of arc funtions is incomplete. However there is a solution, which will be discussed later.

Sin(30)=0.5 10Sin(30)=5
Tan(30)=1.414/2=0.707 10Tan(30)=7.07, verify some values yourself.

Also you can note the scale value in red, backwards increasing- they are Cot and Cos.

The real problem comes when the given trig-function is not given by decimals, but fractions instead.

For example, Sinθ=3/5 and Tanθ=3/4. We don't have to transfer them to decimals.
Using the simple fraction calculation discussed earlier, we can get 4/5*10 by
C     5    10(right 1)
D     3     3/5*10
However this is an ineffective calculation because the S scale is a funtion of C instead of a function of D and the intermediate result 4/5*10 on D has little use.
Then we can change the roles C and D play.
C   3    3/5*10 
D   5    10(right 1)
4/5*10 is got by 4*(10/5), however you can just think


It's simple algebra, having discussed in the previous page.
But it's of great convenience. Upper is 3, Lower is 5, then let 3 match 5 and 10 match the enlarged trig function value.
When C=10*3/5, S=Arcsin(3/5).
Check the Arctan(3/4) both 37°.

You may encounter 9/16 problem
but 9/1.6=9/16*10
so
C 9/1.6  9
D   1     16

This way you can calculate many values, however some values are just too small.

It doesn't matter because there is "ST" as a compensation. ST means "small tangents"
It calculates the arctangents on [0.01,0.1] So ST=Arctan(C/100)

The angles for ST just compensate T, [0.6, 5.8]U[5.7,45]
How about you have Sines of small value? almost equal to tangents of the same angle. So you may pretend to calculate arcsin by calculating arctan. In addition some slide rules provide sqrt(1-x[sup]2[/sup]) etc, by which you may get an accurate result after shifting sine value to tangent value.

Next, the CI thing and DI thing.
CI=10/C so you can inversions immediately from CI scale and C scale. (DI=10/D)
Another privilage is
CI[sub]1[/sub]D[sub]1[/sub]=CI[sub]2[/sub]D[sub]2[/sub]
This is from
D[sub]1[/sub]/C[sub]1[/sub]= D[sub]2[/sub]/C[sub]2[/sub]
eg.
CI    1   3
D     9   3
or
C      1   3
DI     9   3

You may find it simplier to operate, but I find backward scale and distant scales hard. They also has too large too small problems as CD scales. Almost the same problem
Now calculate 2*7 by both ways and you will discover the off-scale is the same severe.

#554 Re: This is Cool » 0.9999....(recurring) = 1? » 2007-06-01 17:11:21

No matter how many times you have denied it, Ricky, you are always assuming what you've been told by Profs and what you've read on textbooks as inheritly True. And you want others to Accept those rules. Because they are useful and can be applied? (Can you drink an amount of Pi times water?) The world can be simple, made up of many sufficient simals, discrete, instead of a complex of infinitesimals, continuous (think line and dots model if you don't get it). And this model isn't less useful or inferior, at least in calculating amounts of material.

So do you really think heretic assumptions have no place unless the orthodoxy has been undeniably beaten?
Yes, stomach ulcer can result from excessive acid, it's true.
But is stomach ulcer resulting from a kind of bacteria that stupid? (yet another assumption)
How much does the revolutioner have to pay a bunch of orthodox players for accepting a new idea?
Drinking up a glass of bacteria?  <Robin Warren and Barry Marshall's finding>

Acadamic world seems too old to learn new things.
They won't learn and stop supressing heretics until the heretics beat them to the ground via evidence accumulated by strugles of one after another.
And then they swap to new theories without any feelings of guilt and keep on supressing any new heretics.

Let me tell you everyone, this is the very truth of human cognition. Human's mind is too tiny to accept two different theories at one time. So whenever there's a dominant one, the supression of the other is spontaneous:

Whether it be the earth around the sun vs the sun around the earth (actually they are not so contradicting each other in a relative motion perspective);

Whether it be the irrationals vs all rationals in Ancient Greek -Pythagoras threw his student to the sea because he had discovered some number not rational by his own theorem-Pythogorean theorem. (Now the orthodoxy and heretic roles has just swapped, as I've said about the swapping.);

Whether it be the evolution theory vs special design theory;

Whether it be the Keynesian theory vs the Monetary policy;

Whether it be the Classic probability theory vs the Bayesion theory;

Whether it be the stomach ulcer caused by oversecretion of acid vs the special bacteria.

What I wanna argue here is that:
Are humans too short-sighted to realize their historical guilts? Are they too narrow-minded to allow the prevelant theory and the not-so-neat looking theory to exist at the same time? Why are they so sure and so proud of their own bias, the bias to Extinct any theory except the present-prevelant one? What I now ask for is not one taking down the other, but the torlarance to accept different theories, especially the heretic ones(because they are in minority) to survive.

The reason lies in the fact that all of us don't have 100% percent of guarantee of upright truth on the intial assumptions, any way.

#555 Re: This is Cool » 0.9999....(recurring) = 1? » 2007-06-01 16:25:22

If you mean only Standard maths is worth your time, yes I am not "qualified".

#556 Re: This is Cool » 0.9999....(recurring) = 1? » 2007-06-01 14:37:34

Ricky wrote:

LQ, what Ricky Really means is that maths is simply a game ruled by a group of clans who call themselves mathematicians.

We define things in certain ways in which we find useful.  You don't like it?  Fine, define it your way and show us something useful.  I guarantee if it is, it will become adopted into standard mathematics. 

I'm still no sure if you understand how mathematical systems work.  We define the rules we want, then we see how those systems act.  You can define your own.  The number systems are defined the way they are because those definitions have, over time, proven themselves useful time and time again.  But, when we talk about the standard number systems, we use the standard definitions.  There are tons of non-standard ones used in many different places.  You seem to think that I am unwilling to consider any other.  I am not.  It's only when we talk about standard number systems do I refuse to change the definitions from what is accepted in standard mathematics.

Great, thanks for your confession, Ricky.

So everybody for 0.999...=1 PLEASE LISTEN:

As Ricky just said, 0.999...=1 AIN'T true or false, because it's simply DEFINED by STANDARD maths System (I mean from debateble axioms to their logical descendants-theorems) ,

And I think it's OK for anybody who doesn't accept 0.999...thing to have their peace.

In fact, 0.999...=1 is proven Only on the aspect that it's proven by axioms and logic. Axioms are the very premises, so if anybody are against those axioms, they are Nothing Wrong.

Proof that I can be the king of the universe on earth:
Axiom: I have a monster who can give me anything.
Proof: Since I have a monster who can give me anything, and anything includes any power, thus I can be the king of the universe.

Anybody, do you call that I can be the king of the universe on earth TRUE? However it's BEEN PROVEN by Solid Logic!

Anyone can reserve discrete numbers and refuse continuous numbers (with infinite digits) on their FREE WILL.

It's a matter of choice. So do we nonbelievers have this right?

#557 Re: This is Cool » The Classic Slide Rule » 2007-06-01 13:07:17

Uh, don't forget this
simulated slide rule

Clicking while pressing "Shift" will open a new window with the new page, rather than changing to the new page.

#558 Re: This is Cool » 0.9999....(recurring) = 1? » 2007-06-01 13:04:35

LQ, what Ricky Really means is that maths is simply a game ruled by a group of clans who call themselves mathematicians. (It sounds ugly, but your signature reveals it all Ricky)

So don't waste time on this debate. Because the time will prove it all. Time has proven any material thought to be continuous not continuous at all. So no need to waste your time now because you have other matters such as global warming to care about.

BTW

Ricky in Post 638 wrote:

I'm really hoping not to revive this topic, but I came across this today.  My Real Analysis book asks the following question:

After that you posted every page. You seem to give up your hope easily.

#559 Re: This is Cool » The Classic Slide Rule » 2007-06-01 01:36:52

Sorry, but this post is an exercise post. Because I feel it necessary for you, a fan of the slide rule, to master the existing C and D scales before you forget the knowledge. So an exercise is necessary. And in this worksheet carefully designed by me, problems appeared earlier may have clues for later ones. So just finish it sequentially and you will master the whole of C and D scales.

I Simple Multiplication
2×2
2×3
2×4
2×1
1.2×4.5
1.2×4.5×1.7
1.8×1.05×3.2
1.04³×20 (suppose you have deposited 20 bucks in the bank for 3 years and the interest rate is 4%)

II Simple fractions
2×4/3
1×4/3
4/3
1/3×4
1/5×6
4/3×9/7
4/3×7/9
2×6/10
10/3×5/7

III Large results (use division by 10 wisely)
12×45
12×45×17
2×6
2×9
7/2×9
7/2×9/2

IV Small results (use multiplication by 10 wisely)
0.12×0.0045
1/3×5/7
1/3×4/7
1/3×2/7
1/5×1/9

#560 Re: This is Cool » Tanθ>θ, for 0<θ<Pi/2 » 2007-05-31 23:55:29

So it's nice to return the serve with the arc approach.

The coming back should be made after hitting. It might be a little clumsy to be frank.

But the most benefit is, by arc approach you face the ball straight with power. It's very important for corner returns. Suppose you've just run along the baseline, you have to turn inward before hitting.

#561 Re: This is Cool » Tanθ>θ, for 0<θ<Pi/2 » 2007-05-31 23:50:56

Yes, the perpendicular distance is the shortest.
But there are pratical problems.
Your feet is hard to adjust to the very correct angle at the beginning.
And you may hit the ball to early, the ball is too tough.
Also after each hitting you are supposed to go back to the original level, otherwise you will get closer and closer to the net compulsively. This means perpendicular moving bears long road back.

#562 Re: This is Cool » FLT DEMONSTRATION By Anthony.R.Brown » 2007-05-30 02:57:31

This is my old trick, but still informative.

#564 Re: This is Cool » FLT DEMONSTRATION By Anthony.R.Brown » 2007-05-30 02:49:40

Anthony.R.Brown wrote:

To Maelwys..etc...

Deductive reasoning is the kind of reasoning in which the conclusion is necessitated by, or reached from, previously known facts (the premises). If the premises are true, the conclusion must be true. This is distinguished from abductive and inductive reasoning, where the premises may predict a high probability of the conclusion, but do not ensure that the conclusion is true. For instance, beginning with the premises "All ice is cold" and "This is ice", you may conclude that "This is cold".

Deductive reasoning is dependent on its premises. That is, a false premise can possibly lead to a false result, and inconclusive premises will also yield an inconclusive conclusion.

A.R.B

Very clear logic, and I don't get why so many people are objecting him.

#565 Re: This is Cool » 0.9999....(recurring) = 1? » 2007-05-30 02:44:03

Okay, mathematica6 do presume 0.999...=1. So the result from some software or a calculator cannot substantiate 0.999...=1. That's it. But can a software substantiate 0.999...<>1?

Softwares are made by humans, thus they only reflect the coders' respective recognition. So let sofware be software, debate be debate.

#566 Re: This is Cool » The Classic Slide Rule » 2007-05-30 01:21:55

The last post is updated and finishes all the usages of C and D.
The next post is going to illustrate CI and triangluar funtions.

#567 Re: Dark Discussions at Cafe Infinity » Global Warming- It's Happening! » 2007-05-30 01:18:36

Is the all dead of heat proof enough for global warming? Sorry, but it is tooooooooo late.

#570 This is Cool » Tanθ>θ, for 0<θ<Pi/2 » 2007-05-29 16:55:02

George,Y
Replies: 3

This proporsition is used for pointing out how to run to return a tennis ball.

Suppose the ball is coming to you right, would you move parallel along the baseline and hit it?
Or would you run an arc to meet it?

Imagine a ball trajectory in your mind. Because the ball travels much faster than you, let's ignore the time it takes from one point to a latter. Think the ball is everywhere on the trajectory. So you reach the trajectory, you reach the ball. Which way is shorter for you to reach it?

The second way, just an arc with start parallel to the baseline, ending up perpendicular to the ball trajectory.
It's always shorter than the tangent running.

And the difference is between a tangent and its angle. Think why.

Tanθ>θ, for 0<θ<Pi/2
It's true. Think why. Just imagine the plot of tan(x) and y=x for more clue.

Yes, the total distance the ball travels in the first way is larger than that in the latter way, indicating there is more time allowed before hitting in the first way. But the ball goes very fast, around 200km/s, compared to a low human running. So the arc provides more chance to hit the ball in time, reaching the trajectory sooner, without having to hit the ball earlier significantly.

This improved footwork is just a begining of revolutionary tennis.
For more, visit its site. www.revolutionarytennis.com

#571 Re: This is Cool » The Classic Slide Rule » 2007-05-29 02:23:32

Note some slide rules mark 10 on C and D as "1", at the right end.
It is for convience, telling you that it can be treated as "1" regardless of decimal point.
Indeed, when you match 10 with any number, it means the number divided by 10.

Tips for "off scale" problem of fraction multiplication.

2*7 is off scale, to solve it, we calculate 2*7/10

How about 2*22/3?
Too large.
So 1/10 is needed for calculation.
we just calculate one tenth of it.

you can do 2*2.2/3
or 2*22/10*(1/3) etc.

How about 2*2/9?
This time too small, we calculate ten times of it instead
2*2*(10/9) etc

And there is also a way to begin with a fraction. But this fraction should be larger than 1.

For example, 3/4*9/5
inverse its sequence to let a fraction larger than 1 sit the first
9/5*3/4
OK, now think 9/5 as 1*9/5, how do you do?
match 5 on C to 1(left 1) on D, and 9 on C points out the result on D. Move the cursor to 9 on C, and the
cursor now record exact value of 9/5. Now just multiply this value by 3/4.

Here is a point. The cursor can play as a physical storage for one number, but this number is usuallly
on D scale
.

Just multiply 1.4*2.4*2.9
You will notice you don't have to read 1.4*2.4 out or check it, the cursor helps you.
Now swap the roles of C and D.
match 1.4 on C to 1 on D(slide leftwards), the value on C above 2.4 on D is the value of 1.4*2.4
Now what?
If you want to multiply 2.9 then you have to match 1.4*2.4 on C to 1 on D and this time the cursor should
move leftwards. The cursor has to follow the C scale, the sliding part. So it's a huge disadvantage
to get the result on C.

Therefore, let's derive a principle:
Usually get the result on D, so that the cursor can stay on static part of the rule and store the result.
By this principle you can do successive multiplications and divisions such as 1.4*2.4*2.9 etc.

There is exception however, in occasions that the next calculation is on the sliding part of the rule.
Just check the middle bar and the functions on them.
For example, the Log function is on the sliding part.
Find log(5/3)
If we get 5/3 on C it's convenient to read the corresponding log on Log scale.
So this time 1 on C-3 on D, and 5 on D-the result 5/3 on C, move the cursor to the result 5/3 and log(5/3) is
on log scale.
Or,
match 5 on C - 3 on D,   1 on D - 5/3 on C. It means 5 divided by 3 in conventional ways.
But look, 5-3, doesn't it look like
5
3?

Yes, (5/3):1=5:3
or
5/3  =  5
1         3

This means C[sub]1[/sub]/D[sub]1[/sub]=C[sub]2[/sub]/D[sub]2[/sub]
which can be easily derived by C[sub]1[/sub]/C[sub]2[/sub]= D[sub]1[/sub]/D[sub]2[/sub]

#572 Re: This is Cool » The Classic Slide Rule » 2007-05-29 01:49:11

The post above finished all multiplications and divisions by C and D scale.
Though together 5 situations (the first in post 14), you can master them easily as long as you understand thefirst property of
a logarithm scale in Post 14.

#573 Re: This is Cool » The Classic Slide Rule » 2007-05-29 01:45:33

Back to the topic, the slide rule.

From Post 14, we know every distance on a logarithm scale represents a ratio between the two values on each end.

S123_Nestler_0291.jpg

Now look at the slide rule above.
Measure with your eyes the distances on D scale between 1 and 2, between 2 and 4, between 4 and 8-are they the same?
Correct, the same, the reason for this has been proved in Post 14.

Now another trick:
Measure with your eyes the distances on D scale between 1 and 1.5, between 2 and 3, between 4 and 6, between 6 and 9.
Are they the same?

The same, too. This result verify the second sentence in this post again. And, we know a new method to do multiplication.
We don't have to move the index on C above the a and read the number on D under C to get 1.5a.
Instead, we can move 2 on C above a, and read 3/2a out right under 3 on C.
That's of great importance because sometimes we need to calculate 4/3a, etc. 1.33 is not accurate, whereas 3 and 4 are.

Sim Pickette's N-600ES LL Speed Rule
Click above to do some multiplication with a fraction your self.

From the same property we get another clue: the ratio? the ratios?
Yes, between two different numbers we can get two ratios, reciprocal to each other, one larger than 1, one less than 1.
Back to the previous example. Knowing how to evaluate 2/3a?
Simple match 3 on C to a on D, and read the value on D right under 2 on C.
Ratios are less than 1 when distance is from right to left, or more accurately, displacement from right to left.

By this method, can you calculate 2 times 6/10?
Yes, this is the only way to calculate 2 times 6 when you have only C and D.
Just try 2 times 6 in conventional way. You will find 6 on C matches blank or no scale on D.
Actually conventional method inhibits 2 times any number larger than 5 less than 10.
Only by fraction multiplication can you calculte those forbidden numbers.

The last for this post
can you calculate 6/5?
Note: 6/5= 6*(1/5)
can you calculate 6/7?
Note: 6*(10/7)=10(6/7)

#574 Re: Help Me ! » differce equations questions » 2007-05-29 00:14:04

The standard series way to answer all you questions.

aq,aq^2,aq^3,aq^4...aq^(n-1)

find the sum of them, you may find a formula of S.

However I can solve the first question in a tricky way:

Vn+1= 1.2 Vn +4000
Vn+1+20000= 1.2 Vn +24000
Vn+1+20000= 1.2 (Vn +20000)
So V[sub]2002[/sub]+20000=1.2²(25000+20000)
V[sub]2002[/sub]=44800

How did I come up with 20000 and 24000?
suppose
Vn+1+C=1.2Vn+1.2C
so
Vn+1=1.2Vn+0.2C
See what C is?

#575 Re: Help Me ! » Object sliding down a straight frictionless slope » 2007-05-27 00:41:25

The acceleration is along the slope, at a=gCosθ
The total distance is s=h/Cosθ

So the time for travel is

t=√(2s/a)= √[2h/(Cosθ g Cosθ) = Secθ √(2h/g)

The longer the distance, the larger the angle θ, and the larger the secθ, finally the longer the time.

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