Math Is Fun Forum

bobbym

bumpkin

From: Bumpkinland

Registered: 2009-04-12

Posts: 109,606

Re: Is this cool with you?

I will take and put it into my notes and work with it.

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In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

gAr

Member

Registered: 2011-01-09

Posts: 3,482

Re: Is this cool with you?

Ok, thank you,

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"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense"  - Buddha?

"Data! Data! Data!" he cried impatiently. "I can't make bricks without clay."

bobbym

bumpkin

From: Bumpkinland

Registered: 2009-04-12

Posts: 109,606

Re: Is this cool with you?

Hi gAr;

How did you label your rows and columns?

---

In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

gAr

Member

Registered: 2011-01-09

Posts: 3,482

Re: Is this cool with you?

Hi bobbym,

Here is the state diagram with probabilities.
B6 means second player with 6 bullets, A3 means first player with 3 bullets, DA means A is dead, BA means both are alive etc.

Last edited by gAr (2011-04-07 01:56:57)

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"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense"  - Buddha?

"Data! Data! Data!" he cried impatiently. "I can't make bricks without clay."

gAr

Member

Registered: 2011-01-09

Posts: 3,482

Re: Is this cool with you?

Hi,

Check the above image.

---

"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense"  - Buddha?

"Data! Data! Data!" he cried impatiently. "I can't make bricks without clay."

bobbym

bumpkin

From: Bumpkinland

Registered: 2009-04-12

Posts: 109,606

Re: Is this cool with you?

Hi gAr;

I am labeling it like that too! That is sort of like a check.

---

In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

gAr

Member

Registered: 2011-01-09

Posts: 3,482

Re: Is this cool with you?

Yes, it would be easier to check for mistakes, if any.

And the software which I used to draw is JFLAP. It's a mighty software for dealing with automata theory!

---

"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense"  - Buddha?

"Data! Data! Data!" he cried impatiently. "I can't make bricks without clay."

bobbym

bumpkin

From: Bumpkinland

Registered: 2009-04-12

Posts: 109,606

Re: Is this cool with you?

Hi gAr;

I need a little break to rest, I will see you later.

---

In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

gAr

Member

Registered: 2011-01-09

Posts: 3,482

Re: Is this cool with you?

Hi,

Ok, see you later.

---

"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense"  - Buddha?

"Data! Data! Data!" he cried impatiently. "I can't make bricks without clay."

bobbym

bumpkin

From: Bumpkinland

Registered: 2009-04-12

Posts: 109,606

Re: Is this cool with you?

Hi gAr;

I have not been able to find anything wrong with your Markov chain. Could be because it is correct.

---

In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

gAr

Member

Registered: 2011-01-09

Posts: 3,482

Re: Is this cool with you?

Hi bobbym,

Thanks for checking.
What confuses me is this: Take E.g. the state A5. A gets B with probability 5/12, or transitions to B5 with probability 7/12, which includes the chance of not firing also.
If A didn't fire, then there should be a possible transition to A5. Don't know how the chain takes care of that!

---

"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense"  - Buddha?

"Data! Data! Data!" he cried impatiently. "I can't make bricks without clay."

bobbym

bumpkin

From: Bumpkinland

Registered: 2009-04-12

Posts: 109,606

Re: Is this cool with you?

Hi gAr;

I am not sure I am understanding what you are asking. In your problem there is no option of not firing. If you wanted to have that then you could put the probability into the intersection of row a5 and  column a5. That would mean there is a chance of A5 -> A5.

---

In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

gAr

Member

Registered: 2011-01-09

Posts: 3,482

Re: Is this cool with you?

Hi,

I mean A pulls the trigger, but the cylinder slot is empty.

---

"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense"  - Buddha?

"Data! Data! Data!" he cried impatiently. "I can't make bricks without clay."

bobbym

bumpkin

From: Bumpkinland

Registered: 2009-04-12

Posts: 109,606

Re: Is this cool with you?

Hi gAr;

I see what you are saying. Right now it looks like that is being combined to he aims fires and misses. Maybe you could create more choices?

---

In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

gAr

Member

Registered: 2011-01-09

Posts: 3,482

Re: Is this cool with you?

One way may be to name the states as A6B6, A5B6,A5B5, ... , A3B4, ... A1B1. That would be too many states.
You get what I mean?

---

"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense"  - Buddha?

"Data! Data! Data!" he cried impatiently. "I can't make bricks without clay."

bobbym

bumpkin

From: Bumpkinland

Registered: 2009-04-12

Posts: 109,606

Re: Is this cool with you?

I think it is easier to reword the problem. Or, increase the choices, right now A5 has two choices. Make a third choice of when the cylinder is empty. At least the matrix does not get bigger.

---

In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

gAr

Member

Registered: 2011-01-09

Posts: 3,482

Re: Is this cool with you?

I tried that too.
If choices are increased, then from A5 there would be a possibility to go to B5,B4,B3,B2 or B1 and similarly for the others.
Then calculating those probabilities would be a bigger task.

I'll take a little break, see you later.

---

"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense"  - Buddha?

"Data! Data! Data!" he cried impatiently. "I can't make bricks without clay."

bobbym

bumpkin

From: Bumpkinland

Registered: 2009-04-12

Posts: 109,606

Re: Is this cool with you?

Okay, gAr. See you later.

---

In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

gAr

Member

Registered: 2011-01-09

Posts: 3,482

Re: Is this cool with you?

Hi bobbym,

I couldn't get any further with this.

---

"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense"  - Buddha?

"Data! Data! Data!" he cried impatiently. "I can't make bricks without clay."

bobbym

bumpkin

From: Bumpkinland

Registered: 2009-04-12

Posts: 109,606

Re: Is this cool with you?

Hi gAr;

Well look, let's not tell anybody about it. That way we can keep my series solution and your markov chain up there.

---

In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

gAr

Member

Registered: 2011-01-09

Posts: 3,482

Re: Is this cool with you?

Hi bobbym,

I did not get what you implied!

---

"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense"  - Buddha?

"Data! Data! Data!" he cried impatiently. "I can't make bricks without clay."

bobbym

bumpkin

From: Bumpkinland

Registered: 2009-04-12

Posts: 109,606

Re: Is this cool with you?

Hi gAr;

Just joking about hiding it.

I was thinking that if I understand what you are saying those solutions are flawed.

---

In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

gAr

Member

Registered: 2011-01-09

Posts: 3,482

Re: Is this cool with you?

"We will pretend to be right"?

---

"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense"  - Buddha?

"Data! Data! Data!" he cried impatiently. "I can't make bricks without clay."

gAr

Member

Registered: 2011-01-09

Posts: 3,482

Re: Is this cool with you?

Ya, got it reading again...

---

"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense"  - Buddha?

"Data! Data! Data!" he cried impatiently. "I can't make bricks without clay."

bobbym

bumpkin

From: Bumpkinland

Registered: 2009-04-12

Posts: 109,606

Re: Is this cool with you?

Absolutely! Since I put the wrong answer up there first I will expect my name to go first when we name it the bobbym gAr solution.

Kidding aside, I was thinking that the problem could me modelled like this

1) A5 fires and kills B, game over.

2) A5 fires and misses so control passes to B5.

3) A5 has an empty chamber so he stays in A5. He spins the cylinder and repeats 3) until 1 or 2 occurs.

---

In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.