Math Is Fun Forum

bobbym

bumpkin

From: Bumpkinland

Registered: 2009-04-12

Posts: 109,606

Re: [1 paradox]

It is the same as .3333333... which you already accepted!

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In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

anonimnystefy

Real Member

From: Harlan's World

Registered: 2011-05-23

Posts: 16,049

Re: [1 paradox]

Hm, but, you see, I do not allow for repeating 9's after the decimal point. I find that every number has a unique decimal representation that way!

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“Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.
“Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment
The knowledge of some things as a function of age is a delta function.

bobbym

bumpkin

From: Bumpkinland

Registered: 2009-04-12

Posts: 109,606

Re: [1 paradox]

But you allow for .333333... and .6666666... why stop at .9999999...?

---

In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

anonimnystefy

Real Member

From: Harlan's World

Registered: 2011-05-23

Posts: 16,049

Re: [1 paradox]

Because there is no other way to write the first two. The third is needless.

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“Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.
“Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment
The knowledge of some things as a function of age is a delta function.

bobbym

bumpkin

From: Bumpkinland

Registered: 2009-04-12

Posts: 109,606

Re: [1 paradox]

Not really it also represents 3 x .3333333... and 9 x .1111111..., all of which you agree exist but suddenly when we multiply they disappear like magic?

Last edited by bobbym (2013-03-06 04:22:42)

---

In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

anonimnystefy

Real Member

From: Harlan's World

Registered: 2011-05-23

Posts: 16,049

Re: [1 paradox]

Yes, but those are not decimal representation of that number.

And, they don't disappear. Both of those are 1.

---

“Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.
“Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment
The knowledge of some things as a function of age is a delta function.

bobbym

bumpkin

From: Bumpkinland

Registered: 2009-04-12

Posts: 109,606

Re: [1 paradox]

They are also digit by digit multiplication. We are allowed to multiply are we not?

.999999999... exits because as you say .33333333... exists.

---

In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

anonimnystefy

Real Member

From: Harlan's World

Registered: 2011-05-23

Posts: 16,049

Re: [1 paradox]

We are allowed to multiply. 3*0.3333...=1.

---

“Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.
“Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment
The knowledge of some things as a function of age is a delta function.

bobbym

bumpkin

From: Bumpkinland

Registered: 2009-04-12

Posts: 109,606

Re: [1 paradox]

How do you know that 3 * .3333333... = 1?

---

In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

anonimnystefy

Real Member

From: Harlan's World

Registered: 2011-05-23

Posts: 16,049

Re: [1 paradox]

Because 3*0.333...=3*(1/3)=1.

---

“Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.
“Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment
The knowledge of some things as a function of age is a delta function.

bobbym

bumpkin

From: Bumpkinland

Registered: 2009-04-12

Posts: 109,606

Re: [1 paradox]

Hmmm, that is because you know and accept that 1 / 3 = .3333333. What would you do for this one?

What fraction is that?

Last edited by bobbym (2013-03-06 04:56:51)

---

In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

anonimnystefy

Real Member

From: Harlan's World

Registered: 2011-05-23

Posts: 16,049

Re: [1 paradox]

It is 1/2071.

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“Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.
“Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment
The knowledge of some things as a function of age is a delta function.

bobbym

bumpkin

From: Bumpkinland

Registered: 2009-04-12

Posts: 109,606

Re: [1 paradox]

How do you know that?

---

In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

anonimnystefy

Real Member

From: Harlan's World

Registered: 2011-05-23

Posts: 16,049

Re: [1 paradox]

It was easy finding it.

---

“Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.
“Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment
The knowledge of some things as a function of age is a delta function.

bobbym

bumpkin

From: Bumpkinland

Registered: 2009-04-12

Posts: 109,606

Re: [1 paradox]

No it was not. It was easy for your package to find it.

Supposing I gave you one that your package could not get. Let us assume it is that one. Prove that 2701 x that number is one?

---

In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

anonimnystefy

Real Member

From: Harlan's World

Registered: 2011-05-23

Posts: 16,049

Re: [1 paradox]

Well, if I had a package, I would simply divide 1 by 2071 and check to see if it is that number.

Last edited by anonimnystefy (2013-03-06 05:51:27)

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“Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.
“Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment
The knowledge of some things as a function of age is a delta function.

bobbym

bumpkin

From: Bumpkinland

Registered: 2009-04-12

Posts: 109,606

Re: [1 paradox]

Did you try that?

---

In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

anonimnystefy

Real Member

From: Harlan's World

Registered: 2011-05-23

Posts: 16,049

Re: [1 paradox]

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=1%2F2071

---

“Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.
“Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment
The knowledge of some things as a function of age is a delta function.

bobbym

bumpkin

From: Bumpkinland

Registered: 2009-04-12

Posts: 109,606

Re: [1 paradox]

Hohohohohohohohohoh! That is a good one. Very good!

Ever wonder how wolfram did that? Supposing you had to do it without alpha, could you prove that 2701 x that decimal expansion is 1?

For that matter you have not proved that 3 * .3333333... = 1. What if you did not know that 1 / 3 = .33333333...?

Last edited by bobbym (2013-03-06 06:08:31)

---

In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

anonimnystefy

Real Member

From: Harlan's World

Registered: 2011-05-23

Posts: 16,049

Re: [1 paradox]

Well, I do know that 1/3=0.333... Supposing that I do not is very unrealistic.

---

“Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.
“Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment
The knowledge of some things as a function of age is a delta function.

bobbym

bumpkin

From: Bumpkinland

Registered: 2009-04-12

Posts: 109,606

Re: [1 paradox]

I am asking for the proof without that knowledge because for the bigger fraction you would only have the repeating decimal not the fraction. Do you think that mathematica knows that fraction offhand?

---

In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

Bob

Administrator

Registered: 2010-06-20

Posts: 10,619

Re: [1 paradox]

hi bobbym and Stefy

Supposing I gave you one that your package could not get. Let us assume it is that one. Prove that 2701 x that number is one?

Well it's only a long division.  So given the following I could do it without a computer of any kind:

(i) large sheet of paper (A0 or bigger)

(ii) A pencil and sharpener

(iii) A sufficient incentive to maqke the effort ($1000000 should do it)

Bob

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Children are not defined by school ...........The Fonz
You cannot teach a man anything;  you can only help him find it within himself..........Galileo Galilei
Sometimes I deliberately make mistakes, just to test you!  …………….Bob

bobbym

bumpkin

From: Bumpkinland

Registered: 2009-04-12

Posts: 109,606

Re: [1 paradox]

Hi;

Where I am going with this is simple. Multiplying .333333333333333... by 3 is never going to produce that magical 1. It is going to produce a long string of nines. anonimnystefy gets around that by calling it 1 / 3 and doing rational arithmetic. But what happens when you do not know the rational equivalent of the decimal? He is now forced to do the multiplication

Always the string of nines.

Last edited by bobbym (2013-03-06 07:14:51)

---

In mathematics, you don't understand things. You just get used to them.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Always satisfy the Prime Directive of getting the right answer above all else.

anonimnystefy

Real Member

From: Harlan's World

Registered: 2011-05-23

Posts: 16,049

Re: [1 paradox]

That is because you do not have enough digits of precision.

---

“Here lies the reader who will never open this book. He is forever dead.
“Taking a new step, uttering a new word, is what people fear most.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Crime and Punishment
The knowledge of some things as a function of age is a delta function.

Bob

Administrator

Registered: 2010-06-20

Posts: 10,619

Re: [1 paradox]

But my point is, you can achieve the same without doing a multiplication.  You do a division instead.  By long D you get all those digits and then the recurring clicks in and you can stop.  No precision problem at all.

Bob

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Children are not defined by school ...........The Fonz
You cannot teach a man anything;  you can only help him find it within himself..........Galileo Galilei
Sometimes I deliberately make mistakes, just to test you!  …………….Bob