What shape is the universe?

Ricky · 2007-05-27 10:33:28

Maybe the universe structure is like darkmatter as water and planets like the object floating in it.

I think you misunderstand dark matter. When we look out into the universe, we see galaxies moving erratically, not at all like we expect them to. It looks like there is more matter out there than what we can actually detect/expect. So it was theorized that there was dark matter creating gravity which was causing things to move oddly.

Ever occured to you that the small red shifted young far away exploding universe might have expanded faster then it expands today?

As much as we have observed, it is constant. We have no reason why it would decrease, nor have we seen it decrease. Until either of these occurs, the best conclusion is that it is in fact constant.

Sekky · 2007-05-27 12:05:17

Dark matter is just a placeholder theory. Orbital behaviour implies that the universe is denser than we observe it to be, therefore dark matter. It's a horrid concept: "Not enough mass implies undetectable/invisible mass." Great.

Ricky · 2007-05-27 12:28:13

Sekky wrote:

Dark matter is just a placeholder theory. Orbital behaviour implies that the universe is denser than we observe it to be, therefore dark matter. It's a horrid concept: "Not enough mass implies undetectable/invisible mass." Great.

I wouldn't say that. We know that there most certainly can be stuff out there that we don't yet know how to detect. For example, a rouge planet and things like neutrinos. Its not at all inconceivable that there are other things out there as well.

Stanley_Marsh · 2007-05-27 18:19:12

but I think space wont just be a void ? My point is maybe the speed of the departing planets isnt enough represent the speed of the universe.

LQ · 2007-05-27 19:15:44

Ricky wrote:

Maybe the universe structure is like darkmatter as water and planets like the object floating in it.
I think you misunderstand dark matter. When we look out into the universe, we see galaxies moving erratically, not at all like we expect them to. It looks like there is more matter out there than what we can actually detect/expect. So it was theorized that there was dark matter creating gravity which was causing things to move oddly.
Ever occured to you that the small red shifted young far away exploding universe might have expanded faster then it expands today?
As much as we have observed, it is constant. We have no reason why it would decrease, nor have we seen it decrease. Until either of these occurs, the best conclusion is that it is in fact constant.

Yes, best conclusion ever Ricky. Would you just tell me what is left to make the matter and space expand...

U7109 · 2007-05-27 19:37:20

This may of been talked about earlier in this topic, but I'll say it now. Scientists have come up with two ways the Universe might end; either it will explode with a Big Bang like it was created, or all the galaxies pull together to form The Big Crunch. Before you all hide under your beds and shriek for help, don't worry, this'll happen in trillions upon zillions of years.

LQ · 2007-05-27 19:50:16

Why should we shriek for help, the quarks remain conscious... It'll be an adventure! I've never actually been a black hole before, that I know of. And I couldn't, they vaporise too slowly.

U7109 · 2007-05-27 19:55:37

Ah, black holes. You may know this, but there's a black hole in the centre of our own Milky Way Galaxy. In a few hundred million years, the black hole will swallow Earth, and then people will be shrieking for help. Who wouldn't, when you're about to be pulled into long, thin strips and squashed down until you wouldn't exist?

LQ · 2007-05-27 20:10:05

Don't be silly, ofcourse I would exist. And as a matter of factly our sun will be our end in 5 billion years as it swallows earth. The black hole is too far away to destroy us first. Or is this some new amazing research?

Last edited by LQ (2007-05-27 21:28:02)

Ricky · 2007-05-28 03:41:16

Would you just tell me what is left to make the matter and space expand...

As far as we know, matter isn't expanding. It's just space. The cause behind it is unknown. We don't even know what space is made up of.

Scientists have come up with two ways the Universe might end; either it will explode with a Big Bang like it was created, or all the galaxies pull together to form The Big Crunch.

I don't think this is correct. There is a possibility for a Big Crunch, but not a Big Bang. Instead, if there is no crunch, what will happen is things will continue to expand and the universe will suffer a cold death. Energy will be so spread out that there will be no possibility for life anywhere, and the universe will become a cold, dark place.

LQ · 2007-05-28 04:36:58

Ricky wrote:

Would you just tell me what is left to make the matter and space expand...
As far as we know, matter isn't expanding. It's just space. The cause behind it is unknown. We don't even know what space is made up of.

I for one believe in cause and effect. If something is moving the mass through creating space, then I expect that the dark matter or whatever it is doing this releases quite alot of energy, not to mention that the effect would be homogenous, which would mean overlightspeed movement when you look into space at past events, not to mention that everything would look magnified when you look out through this space bubble on the space around us which partly does not exist yet, don't you think?

That would explain why there is no dark matter around, since it is all smoked.

Last edited by LQ (2007-05-28 04:41:28)

Ricky · 2007-05-28 05:19:42

On the whole, your post made absolutely no sense. I get the feeling you are just inventing things as you go along, although I sincerely hope this isn't the case.

If something is moving the mass through creating space

Moving mass through what? And are you suggesting its the movement of mass which is creating space?

then I expect that the dark matter or whatever it is doing this releases quite alot of energy

Why?

not to mention that the effect would be homogenous, which would mean overlightspeed movement when you look into space at past events

Huh? How does this effect happening every where in the universe equally have anything to do with "overlightspeed movement"? Is there even such a thing as over light speed movement? How does looking cause over light speed movement? When you look, all you are doing is interpreting photons hitting your eyes. Other than the photons, there is no movement, and those move at the speed of light.

not to mention that everything would look magnified when you look out through this space bubble on the space around us which partly does not exist yet

Why magnified? What bubble? How does something partly not exist?

LQ · 2007-05-28 05:50:48

Are you dissing me or what?

If something, through creating space, moves mass then it must use alot of energy, since moving mass from other masses must (incase this is how ufoes fly) do so.

If more length per second then the speed of light is created between 2 bodies, then we will experience them as moving faster then light speed

If you imagine our time with more space then whatever time before, then the inside (earth) would be bigger then the outside (other galaxies etc.) for our eyes, that sees photones. hence a galaxy would as a matter of factly, look much bigger then they are.

Ricky · 2007-05-28 11:06:05

Are you dissing me or what?

No, I honestly could not understand what you were saying.

If something, through creating space, moves mass then it must use alot of energy, since moving mass from other masses must (incase this is how ufoes fly) do so.

This makes much more sense than your previous post, I thought you were saying that moving mass was creating space. And yes, it is hypothesized that the expansion of space does take energy, although this is solely based on experience that "doing stuff" takes energy. This energy is typically termed dark energy, but it is not believed to have any thing to do with dark matter. We only call it dark energy because we don't know where it's hiding.

If more length per second then the speed of light is created between 2 bodies, then we will experience them as moving faster then light speed

There distance will be increasing faster than the speed of light, yes. But they are not moving through space faster than the speed of light. Don't get the two confused, they are entirely different.

If you imagine our time with more space then whatever time before, then the inside (earth) would be bigger then the outside (other galaxies etc.) for our eyes, that sees photones.

Why?

Stanley_Marsh · 2007-05-28 13:24:58

If the density of a matter is higher than it's entourage , there will be pressure , making it have the tendency of distributing its matter evenly . If a ballon placed in a void , I think it will explode.. And the universe's expand is pretty much the same..I guess.

LQ · 2007-05-28 20:03:48

Yes.

why?

because there is more space on the inside then on the outside, the universe will be bent. That you must understand. For all I know you are a mathematician.

Last edited by LQ (2007-05-28 20:07:50)

Ricky · 2007-05-29 02:15:47

LQ wrote:

Yes.
why?
because there is more space on the inside then on the outside, the universe will be bent. That you must understand. For all I know you are a mathematician.

What do you mean there must be more on the inside then on the outside? You said in your original post:

then the inside (earth) would be bigger then the outside (other galaxies etc.)

By earth, do you mean our galaxy? Or do you literally just mean earth?

LQ · 2007-05-29 02:34:01

The inside as where the telescope is.

Laterally Speaking · 2007-06-16 09:07:06

You mean the point of view of the observer, right?

Ricky · 2007-06-16 11:59:47

LQ wrote:

The inside as where the telescope is.

So where the telescope is, is bigger than galaxies? I'm sorry, but you aren't making any sense at all.

Laterally Speaking · 2007-06-16 21:27:36

Would you be meaning that the point of view of the observer has a higher concentration of matter that it normally would? That still doesn't make much sense, but it's at least plausible.

Laterally Speaking · 2007-06-19 09:31:20

I said this somewhere else, but I'll say it again: if the universe is truly without boundaries, then we have no way to prove it, as it would look the same as if the boundaries were simply out of sight. If the universe wraps, which seems quite possible, then, in theory, if you set off in any one direction, you would end up at your point of origin, eventually.

This isn't really getting the conversation any further, but I figured I should say something.

LQ · 2007-06-24 20:28:39

Laterally Speaking wrote:

Would you be meaning that the point of view of the observer has a higher concentration of matter that it normally would? That still doesn't make much sense, but it's at least plausible.

No, it's just that the universe didn't have a 14 bill years radius 14 bill years ago, hence what we see is stretched, and hence the light from there should be stretched too.

Laterally Speaking · 2007-06-25 00:54:08

Ah! You mean that, because the objects that we see are no longer in the positions in which we see them now, our perspective is distorted?

You could also be talking about something known as "redshift", which is the Doppler effect that light coming from an object far away and moving away from us has.

LQ · 2007-06-25 01:13:28

Forget about red shift, the energy and mass over there is like (14 bill)^2 times magnified.

Last edited by LQ (2007-06-25 01:15:36)

Math Is Fun Forum

#101 2007-05-27 10:33:28

Re: What shape is the universe?

#102 2007-05-27 12:05:17

Re: What shape is the universe?

#103 2007-05-27 12:28:13

Re: What shape is the universe?

#104 2007-05-27 18:19:12

Re: What shape is the universe?

#105 2007-05-27 19:15:44

Re: What shape is the universe?

#106 2007-05-27 19:37:20

Re: What shape is the universe?

#107 2007-05-27 19:50:16

Re: What shape is the universe?

#108 2007-05-27 19:55:37

Re: What shape is the universe?

#109 2007-05-27 20:10:05

Re: What shape is the universe?

#110 2007-05-28 03:41:16

Re: What shape is the universe?

#111 2007-05-28 04:36:58

Re: What shape is the universe?

#112 2007-05-28 05:19:42

Re: What shape is the universe?

#113 2007-05-28 05:50:48

Re: What shape is the universe?

#114 2007-05-28 11:06:05

Re: What shape is the universe?

#115 2007-05-28 13:24:58

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#116 2007-05-28 20:03:48

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#117 2007-05-29 02:15:47

Re: What shape is the universe?

#118 2007-05-29 02:34:01

Re: What shape is the universe?

#119 2007-06-16 09:07:06

Re: What shape is the universe?

#120 2007-06-16 11:59:47

Re: What shape is the universe?

#121 2007-06-16 21:27:36

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#122 2007-06-19 09:31:20

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#123 2007-06-24 20:28:39

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#124 2007-06-25 00:54:08

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#125 2007-06-25 01:13:28

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