God is true

mason777 · 2007-11-20 15:10:00

You know... I think its my job to preach the gospel here... When i was at church my paster told me his friend was relaxing and he felt like buying milk... He did. So he drives home on his way there he feels like stoping... He stops at a placewere there was nothing but 1 house in the middle of no where. So he goes to the house for some reason and knocks... A man walks up and asks him what he wants. The other guy says i know this is weird but i felt like giving you this milk. So the guy at the door tells his wife they had milk. The woman was praying for an angel to bring them milk...
I know this sounds crazy but it is all 100% true i promise...

Last edited by mason777 (2007-11-20 15:10:33)

Identity · 2007-11-20 18:12:41

random

Devantè · 2007-11-20 19:18:39

OK ...

But in order to say it is 100% true (no offence to anyone) then you would have to make a larger sample size, because one claim out of about 6 billion people in the world is very small.

NullRoot · 2007-11-20 22:09:26

God helps those that help themselves. Unless they need milk; then he sends an angel.

I like stories like this. The general logic behind why things happen in a religious context is that they are somehow part of a "Master Plan". So if they really were meant to get the milk and it was so important that one of his heralds took on the task, then I wonder what chain of events that put into motion. Tiny things like this make me think that if there was a sentient God, that he is a big fan of the 'a butterfly flaps its wings...' theory. Or dominoes. I bet God loves dominoes.

No offense meant to anyone here. Just some random thoughts.

...Like how if those people never got that milk through what they perceived as divine intervention, then I wouldn't be talking about this.

Wow. Dominoes are so cool.

Zach · 2007-11-21 02:03:18

One day, I was praying for some Bourbon biscuits.

The next day, I got some.

IT'S A MIRACLE!

Ricky · 2007-11-21 05:55:02

but it is all 100% true i promise...

I didn't believe you till you said this last part.

mason777 · 2007-11-21 06:01:34

Zach wrote:

One day, I was praying for some Bourbon biscuits.
The next day, I got some.
IT'S A MIRACLE!

Guys i know its hard to explain but i know God can do anything believe it! He does stuff we can't even think of. That is why god is true and god does not like dominoes he likes people who follow him and trust and obey him.
They boast against the very heavens, and their words strut though out the earth.
Psalms 73:9
That is what people are doing now. People think cloths and money will help them and boasting to. But if you do that and are not forgiven(you need to ask for forgiveness) you will not be saved. So pray if you are not a Christian. It will make every thing in the world and in your life good.

Ricky · 2007-11-21 06:36:48

So pray if you are not a Christian. It will make every thing in the world and in your life good.

This has been tested and shown to be bunk. But ignoring all the fancy scientists and cool gizmos they always use, why would praying do anything? Did God simply forget to help you? He needs a reminder? Or does praying persuade God into helping? Rather, an omniscient being should know if you are deserving of help, and should give it to you if you are.

The idea of praying originated back way before the Judo-Christian belief, where gods where not omniscient. In this context, praying, that is, asking for help, makes complete sense. When you have an omniscient being, asking for help is quite redundant.

Zach · 2007-11-21 06:38:27

It's not God I have a problem with, it's his fanclub.
XND #27733

Stop pushing your religion on those who do not wish to believe in it. Bashing your idealologies upon them will not make them believe; it will only accentute how much you're lame.

George,Y · 2007-11-21 08:28:03

I don't like the supernatural ideology that whenever something lucky has occurred on you, you attribute it to the feat of God. How about misfortunes?

Sheer coincidences, I would rather believe.

mikau · 2007-11-21 08:52:38

The idea of praying originated back way before the Judo-Christian belief, where gods where not omniscient. In this context, praying, that is, asking for help, makes complete sense. When you have an omniscient being, asking for help is quite redundant.

I really think this is a place where religious discussions should be avoided, and i don't want to go into this much, but that seems an unfair dismissal of the subject. There are many forms of prayer besides asking for help. For example, there is prayer as a means of associating with or "spending time" with God, Allah, Buddha or whoever. There is prayer to do homage, prayer to give thanks, prayer of confession/reparation, etc. But even in the case of help, what you are more or less saying (IF I'm not mistaken) is that people should be able to ignore God, Allah, Buddha etc. and expect him to do favors for you. I think the idea is that going to god for help, and trusting he will do something, is in itself pleasing and this itself makes you more deserving of help. But of course, a god is free to choose not to help for whatever reason regardless of whether or not you deserve it.

Problem is that people usually do see prayer as a source of material wealth. While the Islamic religion is, i believe, quite compatible with material wealth, Christ discouraged all attachment to it on numerous occasions. So I agree, a Christian expecting prayer to grant you money and riches is foolish.

Ricky · 2007-11-21 10:07:01

For sake of clarity, the subject of this thread as defined by mason777 appears to be the Christian god, which is the one I am referring to.

...that seems an unfair dismissal of the subject. There are many forms of prayer besides asking for help. For example, there is prayer as a means of associating with or "spending time" with God, Allah, Buddha or whoever. There is prayer to do homage, prayer to give thanks, prayer of confession/reparation, etc.

I was talking about the part of prayer which I found to be contradictory to logic. Certainly one need not only ask for help when they pray, however it is a nonempty subset of prayers.

But even in the case of help, what you are more or less saying (IF I'm not mistaken) is that people should be able to ignore God, Allah, Buddha etc. and expect him to do favors for you.

It has nothing to do with ignoring God, but rather with being required to ask for his help. He should know that you need and/or want it. Ignoring him and not asking for help are not equivalent things.

So I agree, a Christian expecting prayer to grant you money and riches is foolish.

Just to be extra clear, you've brought this into the conversation. That is, no one else was talking about wealth. So I'm not quite sure who it is you are agreeing with.

mikau · 2007-11-21 10:16:00

ah.. that is true. Wealth was not explicitly mentioned. My mistake.

I was talking about the part of prayer which I found to be contradictory to logic.

fair enough.

It has nothing to do with ignoring God, but rather with being required to ask for his help. He should know that you need and/or want it. Ignoring him and not asking for help are not equivalent things.

I THINK you are saying one would not be required to ask for help in order to obtain it. And I agree.

NullRoot · 2007-11-21 12:04:36

Zach wrote:

It's not God I have a problem with, it's his fanclub.
XND #27733

I've got a better one. The source slips my mind: "God wants spiritual fruit, not religious nuts."

Einstein said it himself: "God does not play dice with the universe." It's all about dominoes. Dominoes and vibrating string-loops .

alisonlarose · 2007-11-21 12:46:06

Zach wrote:

One day, I was praying for some Bourbon biscuits.
The next day, I got some.
IT'S A MIRACLE!

It was so amazing I COULD NOT go to sleep that night!

Identity · 2007-11-21 14:12:31

mason777 wrote:

Guys i know its hard to explain but i know God can do anything believe it! He does stuff we can't even think of. That is why god is true and god does not like dominoes he likes people who follow him and trust and obey him.

I don't understand your logic...

I would hope that if there is a god, he wouldn't reward blind faith.

Devantè · 2007-11-21 18:52:02

You can't put religion against the sciences. There is evidence of things happening in religion, and there are inferences that can be made, but there is no absolute proof that anything had actually happened. That is, unless the religion does not involve anything like praying *cough*Star Trek*cough*.

Actually, the Star Trek religion was real. It was disbanded and it involved really absurd things. That is what comes from fans who get addicted to things.

Ricky · 2007-11-21 19:13:40

You can't put religion against the sciences.

You can't do so for religion in general, you're right. However, for many instances of religion, they directly contradict science. And I'm not talking about conclusions, but rather about thought process. Many, virtually all, require some form of belief. Many religions teach you to believe what you're told. On the other hand, science teaches you question everything your told, and everything you think, as much as possible.

Again, this doesn't apply to all religions, but it does to most. The entire mindset is the exact opposite of what is needed for science to occur.

Identity · 2007-11-21 21:48:10

I think it is a bit unfair to compare religion to science. After all, religion, by its very definition, requires belief. And belief, by its very definition, is not based on logic. By transitivity, religion is not logical. And it's not meant to be... why these people believe in it, I may never know... all I know is there is some reason. I hope that's cleared up.

NullRoot · 2007-11-22 00:46:21

Maybe religion is a means to an end. If that's the case, then it's probably fine to compare them, but only for comparison's sake. It's silly to try and use one to prove the other false in full or in part. It's like trying to prove that "This sentence is a lie." is either true or false.

Remember, too, that Math doesn't have to be universally logical. Take Ricky's signature into consideration.

"In the real world, this would be a problem. But in mathematics, we can just define a place where this problem doesn't exist. So we'll go ahead and do that now..."

That's not an unusual statement in the world of Mathematics. We do it so that we can get an outcome. Does that mean the outcome is potentially useless in the real world? Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe that's not really the point if we went through the process of solving it in a theoretical world?

If religious belief serves Mason's needs then, by all means, carry on Mason. I truly, sincerely hope you achieve the outcome you desire.

My personal view is that if there is something running the cosmos, it's doing it in such a way that things can otherwise be explained by Math, Science, etc, so it's existence is somewhat irrelevant for the time being.

Identity · 2007-11-22 00:49:52

All we have is logic. If logic fails, what do we turn to?

NullRoot · 2007-11-22 01:04:59

I suppose what I'm saying is that "logic" isn't a universal concept:
Logic in Math <> Logic in Science <> Logic in Religion.

If logic in Math fails, we have the liberty of redefining things such that our logic reinstates itself. Think about what went through the mind of the first person who ever got x² = -1 as their answer to an equation. We had to deal with that and invent imaginary numbers.
To some extent, Science and Religion do the same thing. Wave/particle duality and Satan are a couple good examples.

Ricky · 2007-11-22 13:29:24

We had to deal with that and invent imaginary numbers.

This is how they came about, perhaps, but today it is not true. Complex numbers are just R^2 defined with addition and multiplication in a special way. They have existed ever since we accepted ZFC set theory as the basis of mathematics. We discovered this, however, when we looked for solutions to certain polynomial equations.

mason777 · 2007-11-22 15:59:19

Ricky wrote:

So pray if you are not a Christian. It will make every thing in the world and in your life good.
This has been tested and shown to be bunk. But ignoring all the fancy scientists and cool gizmos they always use, why would praying do anything? Did God simply forget to help you? He needs a reminder? Or does praying persuade God into helping? Rather, an omniscient being should know if you are deserving of help, and should give it to you if you are.
The idea of praying originated back way before the Judo-Christian belief, where gods where not omniscient. In this context, praying, that is, asking for help, makes complete sense. When you have an omniscient being, asking for help is quite redundant.

I sorda get what your saying and i know i was wrong. That was a false post.
you need to exept god into your life then pray that you will really make the choice more than something you just say

mason777 · 2007-11-22 16:05:10

Zach wrote:

It's not God I have a problem with, it's his fanclub.
XND #27733
Stop pushing your religion on those who do not wish to believe in it. Bashing your idealologies upon them will not make them believe; it will only accentute how much you're lame.

that is true it is their decission im just helping to... well how do i say this. KNow what there doing and not be confused.

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God is true

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