Math Is Fun Forum

Identity

Member

Registered: 2007-04-18

Posts: 934

Re: God is true

I had a revelation about a week ago and your first point touched on it Kargoneth. In expanded form it goes something like this.

Take your pick.

Now, assuming Humans do exist, and assuming that by 'God' we mean the absolute omnipotent, omniscient ruler of everything and all beyond, we inevitably come to the conclusion that god does not exist.

There. I logically disproved the existence of god.

Ricky

Moderator

Registered: 2005-12-04

Posts: 3,791

Re: God is true

Just watch out for the zebra crossings, Identity.  (Kudos to anyone who actually gets that).

As a side note, I think writing God off because he does not serve a purpose is a particularly foolish thing to do, especially on a Math website. Think of all the things in pure mathematics (like all of G H Hardy's work and what not) that don't serve a purpose, that doesn't make them any less existent.

I wasn't talking about reasons to believe or not when I was talking about purpose.  I was analyzing god's, or rather religion's, role in society.

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"In the real world, this would be a problem.  But in mathematics, we can just define a place where this problem doesn't exist.  So we'll go ahead and do that now..."

bossk171

Member

Registered: 2007-07-16

Posts: 305

Re: God is true

I wasn't talking about reasons to believe or not when I was talking about purpose.  I was analyzing god's, or rather religion's, role in society.

Oh, good point then... I still disagree. I don't really have a valid argument (sorry) other than to say that God is very much relevant in my life. Religion, not so much so, but here is where (I feel) that the confusion really starts.

I believe religion to be an institution, a organization for keeping the masses in control, and keeping tired traditions alive. I consider my relationship with God a spiritual one not a religious one. It's personal and it doesn't rely on an authority figure (Priest, Pastor, Rabbi, etc...) to tell me what I think. It's just God, his Son and I, and we just enjoy each other's company.

As a final comment, for a particularly awesome proof of God's non-existence, read Douglas Adam's "Hitchhikers Guide to the Universe."

Last edited by bossk171 (2007-12-20 09:08:21)

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There are 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary, those who don't, and those who can use induction.

Ricky

Moderator

Registered: 2005-12-04

Posts: 3,791

Re: God is true

I believe religion to be an institution, a organization for keeping the masses in control, and keeping tired religions alive.

Do you not see how religion helps many people everyday, and how it brings communities together?

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"In the real world, this would be a problem.  But in mathematics, we can just define a place where this problem doesn't exist.  So we'll go ahead and do that now..."

bossk171

Member

Registered: 2007-07-16

Posts: 305

Re: God is true

Yes, but I think a lot of time religion takes the spirituality out of worship. I feel (especially in the good old US) that church is becoming more of an elitist club used primarily to encourage the right wing agenda.

Personally, when I look at Jesus's teachings, I see a liberal. I see him advocating women's rights, and helping the poor. He administers free health care, and ultimately just says, "Let's all just get along." I don't see those beliefs encouraged in today's Christian movement.

By the way Ricky, what did the Zebra comment mean?

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There are 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary, those who don't, and those who can use induction.

mathsyperson

Moderator

Registered: 2005-06-22

Posts: 4,900

Re: God is true

It's from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Universe.

God refuses to prove to man that he exists, saying that without faith he is nothing.
Man then proves God exists and therefore that he doesn't exist, by the previous statement.
For an encore man then proves that black is white and then gets run over at a zebra crossing.

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Why did the vector cross the road?
It wanted to be normal.

bossk171

Member

Registered: 2007-07-16

Posts: 305

Re: God is true

I remember that now.  Good stuff.

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There are 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary, those who don't, and those who can use induction.

Zach

Member

Registered: 2005-03-23

Posts: 2,075

Re: God is true

The Babel Fish proves God's existance.

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Boy let me tell you what:
I bet you didn't know it, but I'm a fiddle player too.
And if you'd care to take a dare, I'll make a bet with you.

bossk171

Member

Registered: 2007-07-16

Posts: 305

Re: God is true

I thought that the Babel fish was used to disprove God...

While we're on the subject here's an interesting God proof:

God cannot be all knowing and all powerful (he can be one or the other).

Assume God is all knowing. That means he knows everything that will happen in the future, including his own actions. Now in the future he is required to do what he predicated he would... meaning he is limited in his power (he can't do anything, he can only do what he predicted he can do).

A similar argument can be applied in reverse. Assume he is all powerful and does not do what he predicted he would do, then he was wrong in his prediction, and thus not all knowing.

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There are 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary, those who don't, and those who can use induction.

JohnnyReinB

Member

Registered: 2007-10-08

Posts: 453

Re: God is true

Then there's the Rock.

"Let God create a rock that He cannot lift!"

I've heard of an explanation that says that:

God will create a rock than make a promise: "I shall not lift this rock"

However, since that God can no longer lift the rock because of His promise, he no longer is omnipotent, since He can never break a promise (another blow on omnipotence). This also shows that God will chose benevolence over omnipotence. Now, who would ask for a better God?

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"There is not a difference between an in-law and an outlaw, except maybe that an outlaw is wanted"

Nisi Quam Primum, Nequequam

Zach

Member

Registered: 2005-03-23

Posts: 2,075

Re: God is true

The babel proves God's existance, thus disproving him. The rock thing is just a bad arguement vs. God. God does not need to 'prove' his omnipotence, you must simply believe it. Religion is based solely around belief, not proof.

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Boy let me tell you what:
I bet you didn't know it, but I'm a fiddle player too.
And if you'd care to take a dare, I'll make a bet with you.

fruitloop

Member

Registered: 2007-09-29

Posts: 15

Re: God is true

Yes, but I think a lot of time religion takes the spirituality out of worship. I feel (especially in the good old US) that church is becoming more of an elitist club used primarily to encourage the right wing agenda.

Personally, when I look at Jesus's teachings, I see a liberal. I see him advocating women's rights, and helping the poor. He administers free health care, and ultimately just says, "Let's all just get along." I don't see those beliefs encouraged in today's Christian movement.

By the way Ricky, what did the Zebra comment mean?

Jesus wasn't really for any politics, expecially ones years later. He was more concerned for peoples souls and the heavenly kingdom
and i agree that  a bunch of churches are not right... some are just social groups.... gut Christianity does not involve only "lets all get along" it is very important however

and concerning the very first post on this section, i would believe that story b/c i've heard many true ones like that in this book called the power of prayer about true stories in the 1850's revial movement from prayer

fruitloop

Member

Registered: 2007-09-29

Posts: 15

Re: God is true

Zach: your right... faith is most important... but their are a lot of creationist proofs out there wich are great also

George,Y

Member

Registered: 2006-03-12

Posts: 1,379

Re: God is true

It seems that religion is like the complex number, it has a good chance not to be true, but it can function well in a sense. And to function well, it requires people to believe it true, which is a dilema.

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X'(y-Xβ)=0

treehugger96

Member

Registered: 2007-12-24

Posts: 10

Re: God is true

Religion is something that stops people from wrong-doing. Athesists dont believe in god but they want world peace.

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........"To my mind having care and concern for others is the highest of human qualities"
.........Fred Hollows