do fish have a personality

thinkdesigns · 2005-07-27 19:49:07

i don't think fish have real process of their mind, it is proven that they don't feel pain.

and they follow each other, they are all the same, the only thing we know has a personality is people. when fish swim in scools ( i think i spelt taht wrong) they just follow each other. they are not independant like humans, none have a more exciting way of life. they are the same

i think there is somethings major wrong with the fish brain, it can't feel pain that is one fault maybe it can't have a personality.

sorry this should be in the cafe, can someone put it there.

Last edited by thinkdesigns (2005-07-27 20:12:57)

MathsIsFun · 2005-07-27 20:58:17

Apparently goldfish can only remember the last five seconds. If there were two goldfish in a bowl they would forever be going "Oh, hello, who are you?" ... "Oh, hello, who are you?" ...

I know every fisherman in the world believes that fish don't feel pain, but iI am not sure that is a scientific fact.

... oh, did you know, apparently goldfish can only remember the last five seconds?

thinkdesigns · 2005-07-27 22:12:10

haha, but did you know this, goldfish can only remember 3 erm, err, wel you know what i was going to say/.

Erikina · 2005-07-27 22:31:12

I've had gold fish since I was about nine. I dont think I could count that times I have been told the story about gold fishes memories (from anywhere from 3 seconds to 3 minutes). On TotalyWild (and Australian TV show?) they showed how they trained a fish (admittedly not a gold fish, but another small one) to do circles in the water on cue and then receive food as a reward.

A few months a go I decided to do get a plastic shower curtain ring (which floats well), and place it in the water. The fish just ignored it. Instead of just randomly placing food in the aquarium, I decided to put the fish food inside the ring. Once the food was in the equation, the fish immediately reacted and swam underneath the ring to quickly grab as much food as they can. Once finished, I removed the ring from the water.

For a week, I kept placing the ring in the water, shortly before putting the food inside it. It was then that I started noticing that as soon as the ring was placed in the water, the fish would slowly swim to it, anticipating the food. Once finished, again I would remove the ring.

Now, I have been doing this (for a few months), and as soon as the ring hit touches the surface of the water the gold fish get excited and race over the ring knowing that is where the food will be. So, aspects of fishes memories must last a lot longer than we would expect. I almost think that fact was made up by people to feel better about storing fish in tiny boring containers but I dont think a fishes brain and memory is complex enough to allow it to get bored of an aquarium.

I did a quick search and found this site: http://www.clickertraining.com/training … ing_a_fish which uses "Teaching By Reward Only" to train gold fish, and with cues such as flashing a light, or tapping the bowl they claim their gold fish were trained to do things such as:

swimming under and through a ceramic bridge, or castle, or loop made from bent coat hanger wire.
swimming in a circle in open water.
swimming backwards.
swimming to a finger target placed against the bowl.
following a laser pointer spot on the pebble floor of the tank.

Also thinkdesigns, have you ever done casual fishing? I don't see how you could possibly think that fish don't have brains or feel pain. I have done a limited amount of fishing, and all I really catch is catfish - but when you pull the hook from their mouths, it's a pretty clear that they feel pain ('specially 'cause catfish sort of yelp and cry when you pull the hooks from their mouth). On the other hand, I don't think fish have personalities (or attitude).

One amazing thing when scuba diving is how the school of fish move and react to stimulus its really very interesting. (I swear the only reason this is so long is because I have a lot of work to do, and any form of procrastination will do (even if its no better than what I am procrastinating)).

Last edited by Erikina (2005-07-27 22:33:31)

MathsIsFun · 2005-07-27 22:47:44

Erikina wrote:

(I swear the only reason this is so long is because I have a lot of work to do...

Not too long. Just right, and very interesting.

Good experimenting, too.

I have trained dogs in obedience clubs, and was amazed at how many different "opinions" people have of dog intelligence. I even have heard the opinion that it is not worth patting a dog, because they are only interested in sight, hearing and smell.

Jai Ganesh · 2005-07-28 16:51:29

thinkdesigns wrote:

i don't think fish have real process of their mind, it is proven that they don't feel pain.

It is wrong to assume fish don't feel pain. Any member of the animal kingdom that reacts to touch does feel pain (I think )

Erikina · 2005-07-28 22:21:34

ganesh wrote:

thinkdesigns wrote:
i don't think fish have real process of their mind, it is proven that they don't feel pain.
It is wrong to assume fish don't feel pain. Any member of the animal kingdom that reacts to touch does feel pain (I think :))

If you hit an anaesthetized person, they will react to the "touch" - but do they really feel pain? I'm pretty sure the same thing would happen to any anaesthetized animal - but I've never heard anything about it. Also headless chicken will react to stimulus such as touch but Im pretty sure they don't feel pain.

Have a look at Nociception.

An interesting experiment done regarding fish feeling pain has been covered by BBC News. In a nutshell they injected a group of fish with bee venom into their mouths. They proceeded to observe obvious signs of pain. This in its self is quite easily passed off as a reflex reaction.

They continued to observed the fish injected with bee venom doing peculiar things such as rubbing their mouths on gravel and the tank walls. This behavior is passed off again as a "reflex reaction". But when they went to feed the stung fish, they observed that the fish took 3 times longer to resume eating than the control group. Now, I don't see any other explanation but that fish feel pain...

MathIsFun wrote:

Good experimenting, too.

Thank you, but it's more for bragging rights (Watch, my trained gold fish) and also a pretty good conversational piece.

mathsyperson · 2005-07-29 00:19:46

I read somewhere that a farmer had a chicken whose head got cut off in an accident, but he fed it with a dropper and managed to keep it alive for 2 years.

Roraborealis · 2005-07-31 00:51:26

Every organism that has a nervous system can feel pain. I think....

chilton tigers · 2006-05-19 14:01:12

can i play

Mathaphobe · 2006-05-20 14:01:57

As for the personality of a fish goes... i think they do have some form of personality, My tropical fish seem to act strangely the cat fish whanever the tank is cleaned goes mad... as for the other two the barbs the dont really seem to care.. so i do think they have some form of personality... if not very limited. but you never know. :

Thinkdesigns:
The only thing we know has a personality is people.

i dont think that is true eather...
monkeys are know to have some form of individuality.

-Well theres my two cents worth

George,Y · 2006-05-20 21:29:51

A fish is very smart. If you have ever tried to fish a fish, you would know it's really a difficult thing to fool a fish and really an easy thing to feed it against your will.

MathsIsFun · 2006-05-21 00:11:05

If fish weren't smart it would be called "fish mining" instead of "fishing".

And dogs have personalities, too. Grrr... woof!

Magister_Magi · 2006-06-09 12:45:41

Thinkdesigns:
when fish swim in scools ( i think i spelt taht wrong) they just follow each other. they are not independant like humans, none have a more exciting way of life. they are the same

Not true. Sharks are fish too, and they don't swim in schools. Well... Some do. Like some hammer heads,(I'm pretty sure), but they still have minds of their own.
And Parrot Fish, they're loners too.
And... That's all I got for now, but I'm pretty sure there's a larger group of lone fish.

And just for the record, basing conclusions on only domesticated fish is inacurate. You need to include all fish, even sharks, in your hypothesis.

blank_brunette · 2008-03-27 13:08:26

i dont know about intelligence, but fish are animals and animals ahave feelings too!

U7109 · 2008-03-27 16:15:43

MathsIsFun wrote:

If there were two goldfish in a bowl they would forever be going "Oh, hello, who are you?" ... "Oh, hello, who are you?"

That sounds funny; I just might make a comic strip out of that.

JohnnyReinB · 2008-03-27 16:17:24

mathsyperson wrote:

I read somewhere that a farmer had a chicken whose head got cut off in an accident, but he fed it with a dropper and managed to keep it alive for 2 years.

Sorry if I'm out of topic, but I remember that this chicken only died because the farmer left the eye dropper (for feeding) when they were touring the country (being headless and all, the chicken became famous)

The chicken, in fact, was supposed to be their dinner when the farmer's mother-in-law visited. the neck being her favorite, he proceeded to cut the head as close as possible, resulting in not cutting of the lower part of the brain stem, which kept the chicken alive.

Seeing that the chicken was still running around, the farmer decided to feed it like a normal chicken, and poof! A headless chicken that went on to become famous!

Kargoneth · 2008-03-27 17:22:10

I suppose the question of whether a fish has a personality can only be answered once a person defines the meaning of 'personality'.

As for the creepy chicken (How it managed to function and act normally with only a brain stem confuses me), here's a link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_the_Headless_Chicken

JohnnyReinB · 2008-03-27 18:10:46

Merriam-Webster Dictionary wrote:

per·son·al·i·ty
Pronunciation:\ˌpər-sə-ˈna-lə-tē, ˌpər-ˈsna-\
Function:noun
Inflected Form(s):plural per·son·al·i·ties
Etymology:Middle English personalite, from Anglo-French personalité, from Late Latin personalitat-, personalitas, from personalis
Date:15th century
1 a: the quality or state of being a person b: personal existence
2 a: the condition or fact of relating to a particular person; specifically : the condition of referring directly to or being aimed disparagingly or hostilely at an individual b: an offensively personal remark <angrily resorted to personalities>
3 a: the complex of characteristics that distinguishes an individual or a nation or group; especially : the totality of an individual's behavioral and emotional characteristics b: a set of distinctive traits and characteristics <the energetic personality of the city>
4 a: distinction or excellence of personal and social traits; also : a person having such quality b: a person of importance, prominence, renown, or notoriety <a TV personality>
synonyms see disposition

U7109 · 2008-03-27 19:30:10

Kargoneth wrote:

As for the creepy chicken (How it managed to function and act normally with only a brain stem confuses me), here's a link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_the_Headless_Chicken

Eww, I just looked at that article. They have a photo of the poor chicken!

They could make a film out of that. 'Mike The Headless Chicken- A Life' seems like a good title.

Math Is Fun Forum

#1 2005-07-27 19:49:07

do fish have a personality

#2 2005-07-27 20:58:17

Re: do fish have a personality

#3 2005-07-27 22:12:10

Re: do fish have a personality

#4 2005-07-27 22:31:12

Re: do fish have a personality

#5 2005-07-27 22:47:44

Re: do fish have a personality

#6 2005-07-28 16:51:29

Re: do fish have a personality

#7 2005-07-28 22:21:34

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#8 2005-07-29 00:19:46

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#9 2005-07-31 00:51:26

Re: do fish have a personality

#10 2006-05-19 14:01:12

Re: do fish have a personality

#11 2006-05-20 14:01:57

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#12 2006-05-20 21:29:51

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#13 2006-05-21 00:11:05

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#14 2006-06-09 12:45:41

Re: do fish have a personality

#15 2008-03-27 13:08:26

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#16 2008-03-27 16:15:43

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#17 2008-03-27 16:17:24

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#18 2008-03-27 17:22:10

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#19 2008-03-27 18:10:46

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